The way the defense played without Kampmen goes to show you he is expendable in a trade. Icould see Teddy trading him for some draft picks to move up in the draft.

All in due time. Assuming the 3-4 stays, Kampman will get the franchise tag and be traded to a 4-3 team in the off-season. In the mean time he'll continue to start and continue to work his ass off doing what he needs to do to be successful in this scheme.

Kampman, Al Harris, a 1st round pick and a 2011 2nd round pick for Joe Thomas.




God I love playing GM.

It's been one game. Let's not get too carried away. Brad Jones played well but he still has a long way to go.

Sounds good, but I'm not sure why a rebuilding 3-4 team like Cleveland would be interested and an over the hill CB and a 4-3 DE.

Quick couple of questions for all of our trade experts???

Do you know the rules regarding franchising free agents with NO CBA?

Assuming the old franchise tag rules apply: If the Packers are willing to pay Kampman Franchise wages (at least 17 million for a single season)- why would he go along with a trade, which of course not only involves working out compensation to the Packers, but also signing Kampman before such a trade where he is not likely to offered 17 million guarenteed for a single season???

Finally, every player in the NFL's days are number, in fact all of our days are numbered -- we are all hospice patients at different stages of the process.

Heat Perhaps you can get Grant for Peterson worked into a multiple team swap while your at it.
God, I love playing assistant GM

Kampman would be tagged as an OLB and not a DE. Last year the tag number for OLB was around 10 mil, not the 17 mil that Carolina had to pony up for Peppers. Still a lot but much easier to trade.

EDIT. Here is where I got the 10mil number. LINK

Kampman's days are numbered, but the threads about his days are apparently not so limited.

From NFL.com:

Ergo, teams will not only have tags to use if there's no CBA after the season, they'll actually have more tags than they do now. As such, I suspect that TT will almost certainly tag and trade Kampman during the offseason.

The question was do you know what the rules are regarding franchising a player and then trading him. At one time there were restrictions on this. I don't know what the affect of not having the CBA is on this which is why I asked.

There is never a shortage of threads on trading everyone and everyone. There were threads on trading just about everyone on the roster including Aaron Rodgers.

I am all for moves that help the team without exception.

Working out trades on UFA is not the easiest thing to accomplish -- there are NOT a lot of historic models to base it upon.

Thanks Cocoman, that is helpful. I wonder if the Packers trying to trade Kampman as a DE might not present an interesting court challenge by his agent? Again I don't know, just pondering.

The CBA expires after the 2010 season. 2010 will be uncapped, so I assume that's what you mean. From what I understand there is no change to the Franchise tag. The main change is that in addition to the Franchise tag a team may also use a Transition tag, which gives the team the right to match any deal offered to the player. Normally they can only use one or the other.

The Packers aren't willing to pay Kampman franchise wages. I suppose if he wanted to he could screw with the team, wait them out and force them to remove the tag, but I don't think he'd do that. He'd likely go along with the move because he probably doesn't want to stay in this 3-4 long term any more than GB wants him in the 3-4 long term. It's in his interests to work out a deal where he gets guaranteed money over a relative long term playing in a system he likes.

Now of course in 2 months this may all be a moot point; maybe he turns it around and becomes the white LT and people here become desperate to KEEP him. That's life in the NFL.

Yes it is life in the NFL. But as I said there is NOT a great deal of precedence in franchise tagging and then pulling off a trade. If it were so easy there would be NO top dollar free agents hitting the market each season without compensation, but we know that is NOT the case.

Most teams simply wait for guys to become UFA.

Other factors that play in are the LARGE number of free agents the Packers potentially face this off season - on-the- one hand uncapped helps the Packers in reducing the number of UFA they have, on the other hand as a small town franchise they can be blown out of the water. Most teams seem to think teams like Green Bay will be forced to horde money in prep for what is to come.

If on the other hand a CBA is reached the Packers have an awful lot of free agents to be playing games of chicken hoping other teams will step up, give compensation and sign our guys to CAP friendly for us/Cap deadly for them contracts so that we can be compensated.

Admittedly this is not an area of expertise for me, but if it were so easy to pull off one would think they would be a lot more of it going on in the NFL -- there isn't to the best of my knowledge.

After looking around, I can't find anything that makes me think the rules governing the behavior of the tags is changing, although obviously I'm reading articles rather than the legalese of the CBA.

As such, my assumption is that the Pack would be free to pull a Corey Williams with Kampman to ensure they get something for him. This seems like a particularly useful maneuver in 2010 since teams are (assuming no new agreement with the players) getting more tags for free (thus massively reducing the number of useful free agents hitting the market).

As Skyshadow said, it really is just a tactic to get some breathing room dealing with players and juggling all the potential free agent balls they're sure to have up in the air.

The situation with Kampman, as it stands right now, is fairly unique in that both player and team know or should know that a split is for the best. Normally the team wants to keep the player. While tag and trades don't happen too often, it happens often enough. I think that's how Champ Bailey was sent out of Washington. Same with John Abraham from the Jets to Atalnta. Or even take Matt Cassell last season. His situation was similar to Kampman's in that everyone kind of knew it made little sense for the Patriots to keep him. Still, they tagged him and took their time working out a deal for the player. I imagine something similar would happen with AK.

I see no reason to believe that the ability to trade away a tagged player will change. And yes, Kampman would absolutely take the option of a multi-year contract over a big pay day in a situation he's unhappy with. I've never heard of a player say he'd rather be franchised than get a new contract. Why? Because what if Kampman has a career ending injury during a franchise tagged year, or his play declines, etc? He's done. No more earnings. But if he's under a 5 year contract, he's still going to see some of that dough.

Not to mention that his stock drops each game where he's being asked to cover.

In the mean time, the Packers might treat him like they treated KGB, just bring him in on passing downs. They can try it out next week as part of bringing him back from the concussion.

I have always though it was exactly the opposite. Two examples I thought of were Corey Willimas & Jared Allen, they were tagged and then traded by their teams. In some cases a team tags a player and then, in order to get him to sign his tender, the teams agrees not to use the tag the following year - this was the case for Assante Samuel and IIRC Albert Haynesworth. Some guys are tagged every year like Walter Jones was in Seattle (I believe he was tagged like 3 years in a row).

My perception is that there are very few top dollar free agents hitting the market because teams are smart about tagging them but there are some.

I do think that there is always the posiblity of trading a tagged guy for another tagged guy - an example might be Duante Robinson in Texas if they can't agree to a deal with him.

The franchise numbers are based on the GREATER of: 1. The 5 highest paid players at that position or 2. A certain percent increase (not sure but I think 10) from that players previous salary.

Peppers' tag # was so high because of his unusually high salary the previous year. His number for next year will be close to 20 mil because of it.

Did you stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night?

I think Kampman still has a bit of a season to come on.

There is no doubt in my mind that Kampman will be tagged (as a linebacker) and traded. The following are the changes that are put into place for the uncapped year.

1) free agency will require six years of service (instead of four years in 2010 and five years in 2011)
2) teams will have three tags to use to restrict free agents instead of one tag, as they do now; and
3) teams that go deep in the playoffs could have some spending restrictions.

If you consider the restrictions above, the number of players who will be eligible for FA will be very small . . . how many will be UFA with more then 6 years of service. Kampman will be one, but there is no doubt that one of the three tags will be used on him.

Truth in advertising warning: I was a strong advocate of trading Kampman before last year's draft. I continued to be an advocate of trading Kampman right up to the trade deadline. The Packers have been trying to stick a square peg into a smaller round hole. It would have been in both the team's and Kampman's best interest to have already done this.

This reflects my basic philosophy that when the team makes a decision to move on, they should move on. Of course, I would have traded Favre to the Vikings 2 years ago too when I think we could have gotten 2 first round draft picks (conditional on performance of course). The fact that the Vikings might have made a super bowl would be irrelevant. Build for the team’s best future.

I agree. Leroy Butler said the same thing as well. That they should put Kampman in strictly as a pass rusher. This isn't really a 3-4 defense when Kampman is in there. The opposing offense knows that Kampman is either rushing or that they can exploit him in coverage. I really thought he would do better but he just isn't getting it done as a playmaker in this defense. Having Jones and Matthews off the edges leaves the opposing defense guessing on who is coming and who is dropping. That is how a 3-4 defense has to work. Jones and Matthews were all revered as oustanding coverage LBs with decent rush skills coming out of college. Neither of these guys will be exploited in coverage. They are very quick and athletic LBs. I really thought Jones would be something special in this defense I just didn't think he would make an impact so soon. Having Matthews and Jones at the corners for years to come would be nice to see. For the first time this year, I saw a legitimate 3-4 LB group in action. They were all over the field terrorizing the offense. This is how the 3-4 is supposed to work. I really think this defense is coming together.

The difference this week defense was that there were no weaknesses or liabilities in our defense without Kampman out there. The opposing offensive coordinator will try to create a mismatch with Kampman out there. Its really sad to see but Kampman just doesn't fit in this defense. I really thought Capers and Greene could work with him and get him some opportunities. In the only game he missed this season, the defense played its most impressive game of the year against an explosive offense. I really feel bad for Kampman. He's such a great guy with tremendous work ethic.

Despite missing a game Kampman is fourth on the team in total tackles, and has 2.5 sacks and was the only one to get pressure on Favre in the last game.

Kampman is not fancy but he is anything but a liability, and is only 8 games into learning a new position and way of playing. Jones is good though and has the benefit of several years as a LB in college.

Kampman will be the starter with Jones probably getting some heavier rotation.

People talking about Kampman being a liability in coverage make it sound like he is dropping back into coverage all the time. Capers has a good problem right now with essentially 16 players that should see significant playing time depending on situations.

DL: Jolly - Pickett - Jenkins - Raji - (& Kampman?) I put him on the DLine because I think this is how Capers is going to use him going forward.
LB: Matthews - Barnett - Hawk - Jones - Chiller - Poppinga
DB: Woodson - Harris - Collins - Bigby - Williams


It would be great if the Packers had a GM that could acquire players that coaches could work with.

I don't know what the chances are of Kampman being a Packer next year but I think they are less than 10%. Kampman was clearly never happy with his role in the 3-4. Kampman has one big contract left at his age and he will get the most money by signing with a different team to play DE in a 4-3.

Kampman would be an outstanding pick up for any 4-3 team. He is a leader and has an unquestionable work ethic. So my question is, what is he worth in terms of a trade? I think he is worth at least a middle to late first round pick. Jared Allen was traded for pick 17 in the first round and two third round picks.

Also what teams do you think would be a good fit? I am sure that TT will look to put him with an AFC ideally. So here are a list of teams I think would be possibilities:

Colts - Kampman would be a great fit on the other side of Freeney
Titans - Their defense is lacking with the loss of Haynesworth
Jaguars - They have been looking for a solid DE for years
Texans - Mario Williams and Kampy would be great for this team
Bills - Their new coach may seek someone like Kampy to help turn the team around

I think you are missing the most obvious one, Minnesota.
Kampy and Allen on the edges with the Williams boys in the middle would make them a decent front four.

In an uncapped year, TT probably slaps on the tag and takes the hit, rather than let Kampman go to Minnesota.

Excellent point and remember that Minnesota signed him to an offer sheet before the '05 season. I'd like to see GB lock up Collins before the UFA period and franchise Kampman. I'm sure that they will get something for him. Being a premium rusher, he would've probably garnered a 1st before. Now they could get a 2nd or maybe early 3rd. The Pack was able to get a 2nd rounder for Javon Walker coming off of the same injury.

A lot of things hinge on what happends with the CBA.

You think we'd get that much for Kampman? I'd be surprised. Thrilled, but surprised. Yeah, I see what you're saying about Walker, but the previous year he had a Pro-Bowl season in which he had nearly 1,400 yards receiving and 12 TDs, making him one of the elite players at his position that year. Even when he's being utilized properly, Kampman's good, but I don't think he's been elite since '06. Besides, Kampman's 30. Walker was what....about 27 or so when he got injured? Those few years make a big difference.

Kampman should have been traded before the deadline. Poor decision on Thompson's part. I think he was scared to jettison another fan favorite. It might have been a "high stakes" move - but look where playing it safe has gotten us. Sometimes you have to know when to roll the dice.

IMO if Kampman is traded then it will be after the season starts next year so we can showcase him to the rest of the league proving he is back to normal.

I honestly think we could get a 1st for him and maybe more.

Agreed! I would bet he is well thought of around the league.

MM and Capers wanted to give Aaron every chance to make it at his new position knowing he was an tremendous athlete and smart. Don't believe Thompson was asked by the staff to get rid of him.

Problem was Aaron (and I've always liked him...still do but not in the 3-4) did not adapt and now with him injured the Capers D is playing much better...#1 better.

What will the tag costfor an outside linebacker . . . less then a DE I assume.

Could anyone see Kampman as a rush end in the 3-4? We paid a lot for KGB to be a pass rushing specialist his last couple of years. Do we do that again . . . at least until Kampy can show he is healed.

There is no way we get a 1st of any kind for Kampman. The guy is 30 coming off a down year and a torn ACL. I would be pleased with a 2nd round pick. Let's hope we get better than a 3rd string QB this time. Maybe Al Harris's replacement. I don't think we could have got a 1st round pick even before Kampman got injured. A torn ACL is a major red flag for teams. Teams won't know his status until after training camp next year. We won't be able to get a pick before the next draft. The Vikes gave up a lot for Allen because he led the NFL in sacks and is younger than Kampman.

I agree. At the time of the trade deadline we had no proven pass rushers. Matthews has really come on since then but you can't trade a proven pass rusher when you aren't sure if you have any more on the team. That's a pretty critical element of your defense. Kampman was starting to get going right at the time of his injury. They were playing him with his hand down and he was really starting to get pressure on the QB.

At the same time, I think our defense has improved since he has been out. It allows us to play a more traditional 3-4 look and opposing QBs know there aren't any coverage weaknesses. They know all our LBs can cover. I was really amazed at what I saw on MNF against the Ravens. It looked like the Steelers defense from the early 1990s with Lloyd and Greene. Even the MNF crew were raving about the speed of our OLBs. The entire Ravens OL was getting absolutely manhandled. An OL that has been pretty solid this year. Matthews and Jones look like a great fit for our defense. I really liked Jones coming out of college. I remember reading some scouting reports thinking he could have been drafted as early as the 5th round. The guy has solid size and great speed coming off the edge. Him and Matthews are very versatile OLBs. Matthews has a tremendous initial burst off the ball and he is starting to develop some pass rushing moves. This guy is only going to get better.

Thats just it, he is not a tremendous athlete. He has made his name for himself thru intelligence, technique, effort, very high motor.....love all those attributes. Otherwise he is stiff, not really quick, and doesn't have fluid hips to turn and run with a reciever.

The Packers are seeing what life is like with fast and athletic OLB in Jones and Mathews. I expect them to explore any and all offers for Kampy despite what they say to the contrary.

I believe that the Packers will franchise Kampman. I know some people think that won't happen since the injury. But, there's no way the Packers leave the door open so that Minnesota can come in and get him.

There's no way Green Bay lets him walk for that sole reason. The results of him going to Minnesota and teaming up with Allen could be devastating.