Quick question on McCarthy’s 2nd challenge that was denied.
I watch the games in a local bar so I can never hear exactly what is said, but after watching the replays, the people around me (including the Cowboy fan next to me) came to the conclusion that although the player didn’t score, the ball should have been placed at the half yard line . . . instead of the one yard line.
First, did anyone else think that there was a problem with the spot
Second . . . does anyone know exactly what the challenge was for . . . the spot or that he scored? I assume its possible that the challenge could be denied if the challenge was that he scored . . . as opposed to the spot of the ball.
Full Version: McCarthy's 2nd challange
PackerChatters > PackerChatters > Green Bay Packers News Talk > Mark Murphy, Ted Thompson, Mike McCarthy, and Aaron Rodgers
You can only challenge the spot of the ball if it involves a first down or a touchdown.
In other words, if you challenge on 2nd and 5 because you feel like the spot was bad and should be 2nd and 3, you can challenge that and the ball may get moved - but you'll still be charged a time out because technically the call wasn't overturned (in this case, the "call" is that it's still 2nd down).
So basically, your challenge has to result in a first down or touchdown, or else you're getting docked a time out. They may move the ball up some, but it has to result in a first down or touchdown.
In other words, if you challenge on 2nd and 5 because you feel like the spot was bad and should be 2nd and 3, you can challenge that and the ball may get moved - but you'll still be charged a time out because technically the call wasn't overturned (in this case, the "call" is that it's still 2nd down).
So basically, your challenge has to result in a first down or touchdown, or else you're getting docked a time out. They may move the ball up some, but it has to result in a first down or touchdown.
Right, and I would only add that the ball should have been placed at the half yard line...but 1st and goal, didn't matter much.
For the record it looked like a good call to me. IMO his knee was down before the ball crossed the goal line.
From the Presser:
(Is there a protocol or chain of command for the challenges?)
Yes. The one with Nelson, the first one was with Tramon. That was both upstairs and the ability to watch it on the field. The second one with Jordy to be honest with you was a time clock issue. When Jordy went in there into the goal line, it was close. They started the 40-second clock. There was a lot of jumping around, and I didn't feel that I would be able to get the play call (in) because the ball has to get spotted. Was it on the 1? There is a difference sometimes in your call between the 1-yard line and the 6-inch yard line, and that's the facts. So with all of that going on, once we got below 20 seconds, I just was looking at the board and listening to what they had upstairs, to see if he was in and then once it got below 10 I was going to have take the timeout anyways. That's why I though the challenge. Sometimes emotion gets involved in your decisions as far as the people telling you, because all of the players were jumping around that he was in, he was in, he was in. But in hindsight, from a challenge standpoint, you probably don't want to do that because we are first and inches at the goal line and then obviously things worked out. I had a play like that, I think it was about two or three years back, that we ended up taking the timeout instead of taking the challenge.
From the Presser:
(Is there a protocol or chain of command for the challenges?)
Yes. The one with Nelson, the first one was with Tramon. That was both upstairs and the ability to watch it on the field. The second one with Jordy to be honest with you was a time clock issue. When Jordy went in there into the goal line, it was close. They started the 40-second clock. There was a lot of jumping around, and I didn't feel that I would be able to get the play call (in) because the ball has to get spotted. Was it on the 1? There is a difference sometimes in your call between the 1-yard line and the 6-inch yard line, and that's the facts. So with all of that going on, once we got below 20 seconds, I just was looking at the board and listening to what they had upstairs, to see if he was in and then once it got below 10 I was going to have take the timeout anyways. That's why I though the challenge. Sometimes emotion gets involved in your decisions as far as the people telling you, because all of the players were jumping around that he was in, he was in, he was in. But in hindsight, from a challenge standpoint, you probably don't want to do that because we are first and inches at the goal line and then obviously things worked out. I had a play like that, I think it was about two or three years back, that we ended up taking the timeout instead of taking the challenge.
It was a stupid challenge. Even I could see his knee was down before Jordy had reached across the goal line. I'd love to know who the Einstein is that is advising MM here. This isn't the first time this season where MM tossed out his red hanky and left me shaking my head. 
Then later in the game when we could've used a challenge and most likely would've had the call go our way we were out of challenges and we were lucky that officiating crew was lousy and we didn't get penalized for trying to challenge that play! 
Then later in the game when we could've used a challenge and most likely would've had the call go our way we were out of challenges and we were lucky that officiating crew was lousy and we didn't get penalized for trying to challenge that play!
Overall, McCarthy does seem to be pretty challange-happy to the point it's predictable in about any situation. I kept saying out loud "here comes the red flag" and sure enough it comes out. Of course it's easy to bash MM for this because his challange history is well below .500.
But I guess what's the point of having challanges if you're not going to use them. Who's to say the Packers certainly would have needed that challange later in the game? IMO it would have been worse to have lost by less than seven points and end up with an un-used challange. Especially when eveyone thought Jordy was in when it happened live.
Does anyone know if the replay images were froze at Lambeau the same way they were on TV? I don't know if MM saw the same obvious shots we did.
I know some said he threw the flag way too soon to know anyway.
But I guess what's the point of having challanges if you're not going to use them. Who's to say the Packers certainly would have needed that challange later in the game? IMO it would have been worse to have lost by less than seven points and end up with an un-used challange. Especially when eveyone thought Jordy was in when it happened live.
Does anyone know if the replay images were froze at Lambeau the same way they were on TV? I don't know if MM saw the same obvious shots we did.
I know some said he threw the flag way too soon to know anyway.
QUOTE (KC Pack Fan @ Nov 16 2009, 04:45 PM) 
Sometimes emotion gets involved in your decisions as far as the people telling you, because all of the players were jumping around that he was in, he was in, he was in. But in hindsight, from a challenge standpoint, you probably don't want to do that because we are first and inches at the goal line and then obviously things worked out.
That sums it up, Mike. You're a Head Coach in the NFL, never let emotion dictate when you throw the red flag!!!!!!!!
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