Interesting read from the Press Gazette

Pete Dougherty column: 'I don't think their problems are terminal,' scout says of Packers
Offensive line 'a mess,' but Sunday's game could be dangerous for the Cowboys
November 13, 2009



Not so with the 2009 Green Bay Packers. At least, that is, if the 4-4 Packers are going to cover their weaknesses well enough to go on a run into the playoffs. It’s Sunday against the Dallas Cowboys.


Win, and the Packers finally will have beaten a quality opponent and have something to pin their hopes on to go 5-2 or 6-1 to close out the schedule. Lose, and the playoffs are a pipe dream, and the job security of General Manager Ted Thompson and coach Mike McCarthy will become an issue for team President and CEO Mark Murphy and the club’s Executive Committee.


“They’re going to come out of this one as a season saver, or you’re going to have a lot of questions going into the San Francisco game and a lot of questions for the remainder of the season,” said a scout who knows the Packers’ organization well.


The scout had seen the Packers this season only in snippets on television until this week, when he graded videotape of their last two games, losses to Minnesota and at Tampa Bay. He agreed to an extended interview Thursday to share his assessment of them and Sunday’s game.


The scout has worked in the NFC for more than 15 years and not only knows the Packers’ recent history, but also works in the NFC East Division, in which the Cowboys play. Keep in mind scouts’ opinions can vary widely, so his observations are far from definitive and must be tempered because they’re based on only two games, both losses in which the Packers at times were at their worst.


The last two games also highlighted the Packers’ persistent problems this season, and yet among the several strong feelings the scout shared, the first words out of his mouth were:

“I don’t think their problems are terminal.”


Meaning, he went on, the Packers have a core of several highly talented players in quarterback Aaron Rodgers, receiver Greg Jennings and cornerback Charles Woodson, along with an up-and-comer in linebacker Clay Matthews. Plus they have good starters in nose tackle Ryan Pickett, defensive end Cullen Jenkins, receiver Donald Driver, cornerback Al Harris and safety Nick Collins.


In other words, they’re not as far from being a good team as the last two games suggest, though overcoming the deficiencies this season will be extremely difficult.


“I think they’ve got talent,” the scout said. “I really do. But the offensive line is not good right now, and that’s the kick in the (groin).”


The scout said he’s torn between which is the greater problem: the offensive line or the pass rush, though his assessment of the blocking, both in pass protection and the run game, was especially harsh.


“The center, (Scott) Wells, I think you can win with guys like that,” he said. “The guard play, not a shot in the (butt), and the tackle play is horrendous. If you had big (guards) next to Wells who could help him push, he’s athletic enough to get to the second level and make blocks. (But) I don’t really like any of those guys.”


At left tackle, he said Chad Clifton looks about finished, though he’s the best the Packers have. Clifton never has been much of a run blocker, but the toll of the severe pelvic injury from the Warren Sapp hit in 2002, plus arthroscopic surgery on both shoulders and knees last offseason, plus an ankle injury this year have greatly diminished his pass blocking as well. Clifton still can handle speed rushers at age 33 but is vulnerable to inside power moves.


“He’s broken down,” the scout said. “The worst thing that can happen to an offensive lineman, take away his shoulders (from arthroscopic surgery) and you take away his punch and you take away his power. You can’t play without power.”


At right tackle, the scout said, Mark Tauscher looked thin and exceptionally rusty last week in his first game since last year. And Allen Barbre, who started the first seven games, played small the previous game against Minnesota.


“Very light,” the scout said of Barbre. “I don’t see any power on this offensive line at all.”


The scout considered guards Daryn Colledge and Josh Sitton nondescript in the two games; absolved halfback Ryan Grant of the bulk of the blame in the punchless run game despite his limited explosive ability; and described a lack of cohesion on the line.


“(Grant) doesn’t have a whole hell of a lot of room to run because the offensive line gets zero push, I mean zero push,” he said. “If you’re a zone-blocking team, you have to have guys moving off the line of scrimmage, and I don’t see that. In the two games I watched — I know Minnesota’s got a good (defensive) line, but I know Tampa’s got a bad one, and Tampa stalemated them.


“When Green Bay had to throw the football, Tampa was running the twist stunts, they were looping guys. Green Bay lost track of guys, it didn’t seem like there was any continuity with the blocking, with the scheme. There were a couple times, too, where they just let a linebacker run through. You get negative plays where a guy runs into the backfield because guys just flat don’t second-level block (i.e., the linebackers).”


The scout saw the pass rush as an equally severe problem in the two games — the Packers rank No. 28 in the NFL in sacks percentage. Though he liked Pickett as a run stopper and Cullen Jenkins as an all-around player, the combination of Jenkins and Johnny Jolly as inside rushers in the nickel defense aren’t getting adequate push.


“The other guy, 97, Jolly, does nothing for me,” the scout said.


The scout also confirmed the growing realization that left outside linebacker Aaron Kampman should only rarely drop in pass coverage and looks like a different player than as a 4-3 defensive end. The Packers considered Kampman a better athlete than, for instance, Greg Ellis, who made the transition from 4-3 defensive end to 3-4 outside linebacker with Dallas in 2003, but Kampman hasn’t made the transition in pass coverage as well as Ellis.


“Greg Ellis immediately was a pretty good drop player,” said the scout. “For eight years, (Ellis) put his hand on the ground and rushed. He’s not a great dropper but all of a sudden he reacted well enough. He was a good reactionary player. Kampman looks like, ‘I’m dropping, OK, now I see it.’ He’s just a tick late in coverage.”



The scout nevertheless sees a good future for the Packers if they can quickly remake their offensive line.


“Ted’s going to have to do some work on his offensive line,” the scout said. “It’s a mess.”


He gives them a decent shot against the Cowboys on Sunday even though Dallas is 6-2 and a 3-point favorite.


“Dallas should be scared to death of these guys to be honest with you,” the scout said. “I said it wasn’t terminal (for the Packers), there’s too many guys on this team the Cowboys have to look at. I think you’re going to get Green Bay’s best effort. I wouldn’t be surprised if (the Cowboys) got beat by this team, wouldn’t shock me if (the Packers) find some way to protect (Rodgers).”


The scout questioned whether the Packers’ problems on the offensive line and rushing the passer would allow them to go on a sustained run even if they win Sunday. But the two games convinced him the most important piece is in place in Rodgers, whom he had not studied this year.


“Sometimes he throws the ball and you go, ‘Why did he throw that?’” the scout said. “But throwing the ball on the move, moving to his left and throwing the ball, throwing across his body, things like that, he can play. I didn’t think that guy could play, but he can play. They need to get him some help on that offensive line, though.”

I always like reading the scouts opinions of the Packers. McGinn and Dougherty seem to pull the opinions of these guys often and it is always telling.

As usual, they are pretty spot on with the issues. The one difference in this review was that this scout seemed to like Scott Wells. I have read others that throw him under the bus. Odd how some see things a little different. Obviously, he thinks the guards and tackles are huge issues.

Johnny Jolly is another one similar to Wells. Some like him, some don't. I think with him he takes plays off and becomes invisible at times.

It isn't all doom and gloom in the eyes of another scout. Maybe some light at the end of this long tunnel.

Doesn't Jolly have 2 INTs?

How many does his DT have?

Other than that, it sounds about right. He was just trying to make the reporter feel good by giving them a chance. You can see it in their eyes. The players are lost to the HC.

Oddly enough for me, this confirms exactly what I've been thinking all season and just don't say because I hear people extolling the virtues of Sitton et al, but it always seemed to me Wells was playing better than anyone on the line this season. He seemed pretty good last year too, which is why I was flabbergasted to find he wasn't starting when the season began. That was just weird. That guy is a player, maybe not the best in the league, but when I see the Packer's line playing poorly it's almost never him who seems to deserve blame. I saw him miss a couple second-level blocks, and a couple of blitzers up the middle, but compared to everyone else it seemed he was doing pretty good. Which made me wonder why in the hell he wasn't starting when the season began, and they moved Spitz who seemed to be doing decently as a guard to center and left Wells out of the starting lineup. Something about this never sat well with me, and my initial thought as the season began was we must have a better line than last year if Wells isn't starting, and when that turned out not to be the case I just...don't get it. It doesn't make sense.

I love everything about College except how well he's been playing, which has gone from marginal to downright abysmal. Frankly the time this season I've been most proud of him was when he drew a fifteen-yard penalty for defending Donald Driver. It didn't hurt us as we ended up with an interception or something anyway on that drive and it was nice to some fire in that guy's guts. :-/