Even if this guy said don't lay a egg IMO that's no reason to fire a guy. That's like acting like a 3 year old running home to mommy saying someone called you a bad name and having the mom call the other mom to get the kid in trouble. I think MM needs to spend more time fixing his poor coaching problems and the poor playing problems instead of firing people for making off-handed comments.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/69932532.html

Why is MM a jerk? He didnt fire him his supervisor did. In today's day and age you have to have a damn good reason for firing someone. Believe me when I say there is much more to this than what is being said.

MM had to be the one to go and tell someone what he thought he heard. The supervisor was most likely told that he had to get rid of him for the comment. Also if that's what MM thought he heard why did MM not say something right away or ask him to repeat that comment but to wait till after you lost the game? I can see a verbal warning if he did say that but to have a guy fired over it makes a person seem look like a petty jerk IMO.

There's a lot more to it than what is being said. As was mentioned, you can't just fire someone for a silly comment.

Where do you guys work? You can get fired for ANYTHING. If someone wants to fire you, you're fired. If MM wanted the guy gone, then that is probably what happened. I think there is more to the story too but this isn't la la land.

The guy probably said, "hey McCarthy, you're shaped like an egg!" Or "hey egghead." Or "an egg could stop Jared Allen better than your LT." Okay that's enough.

If the dismissed employee's current story is to hold water, theres obviously something missing........

No way you work somewhere for 22 years, one day someone walks up and tells you to split and you "shake their hand and split".

Sound to me like "thou doth protest too little" for there NOT to be some credence to what he's attributed with saying.

Sure you can fire anyone at anytime no problem. However get ready for an expense of no tomorrow if you do NOT have a valid reason clearly documented.

The AP story says McCarthy was talking to the maintenance crew when they guy said what he said, so one of the other crew members could have easily reported the incident to the supervisors. It might not have been an intentional "tattle", the supervisors could have easily overheard the story or just got to it by word of mouth.

So in the end, we really don't know if McCarthy had anything to do with it. I have a feeling we're yet to get the whole story.

Sounds like the comment hit to close to home.

Your damn right there is more to this story. When you work at a job for as long as he did, you get away with bloody murder. But if he did get canned because of his 'comment', the one which he claims he said, not the one MM claims he said, then what they did to this guy is wrong. W-R-O-N-G.

How do you can a guy after that many years of service to the organization? Oh wait, nevermind.

I bet he has his job back within 7 days of this story coming public.

Again depends on what was actually said and his past work experience. There is an awful lot of quick judgment on MM on this one. This guy for all we know could be a slug of a employee with a poor work history this could have been the final straw. Again large organizations do not just fire people without proper documentation and a hell of alot of data. They just dont!!

There is more to the story than what was said, we are only hearing one side of the story, and that is the only side you will hear.

Not necessarily. If the Packers are an at-will employer, they can let you go for anything at any given time, unless it has to do with gender, race, or religion. They don't even have to have a reason. Unless of course the grounds crew is in a union, then there are contract rules and etc. to deal with.

people jumping way ahead of themselves

Link

Quite ridiculous if this is true.

Maybe MM will be in charge of the maintenance dept. next season?

He can say he didn't fire him, but one of his minions did.

MM is screwed. He better win this weekend or this is going to get even uglier...if possible.

jsonline is the mouthpiece for the Packers...keep that in mind when we discredit stories.

Why not wait until there is actually some information to comment on. So far all I know is that this man was fired and he claims it is because of a single comment, beyond that nothing is clear. At this point, I don't see how any one can assess guilt to anyone.

Legally their is no recourse. The position is an Employment at Will position. There is no contract or guarantee to work or continued employement, as the Packers are a Private Business. The only action possible by the employee would involve having to prove some sort of prohibitted discrimination - clearly that is not the case here.

I agree with the original premise. MM not standing up for a 22 year employee over such a trival matter is another public relations nightmare -- and likely another nail in a quickly closing coffin. Of course Mike McCarthy did NOT fire the guy, but you can bet MM has a HELL of a lot more influence in the franchise than this guy's supervisor.

A single comment by a long term employee, even if it was "don't lay an egg" may be grounds for a talking to or even a written warning, but the mismanagement to fire this guy at this time from a PR stand point makes this organization look like it is being run by incompentent management. Not something the Packers need at this time.

I agree that this is a PR nightmare and at the worst time. Perhaps you are right, even if this guy deserved to get fired - maybe they should have looked at the current bad PR situation and found another solution. The last thing they need is another "He Said/She Said" fight.

However, I think people are making a few assumptions here. What was actually said, what involvement McCarthy had in his firing, what was his past employment history, did he have previous warnings - I haven't seen any answers to these questions. I don't even know if McCarthy complained or if some one else did? It is entirely possible that McCarthy learned of this at the same time we did, I doubt if he is very involved with the hiring & firings of the maintenance staff.

Still not enough info to pass any judgements, but certainly it is bad timing. I will be interested to read more.

I don’t get it Bruce.

AGAIN I will say who are we to say the Supervisors didn’t have a right to fire him. So now we are to say oh crap we better not fire this guy because this could cause a back lash to MM and the Packers.

BS… none of us on this board know the employees work history or if he has ever been reprimanded before. Why should MM come to this guys rescue and undermine this persons decision to fire him. That would go over well internally.
MM probably did what any upper echelon employee does in any business. An employee made a disrespectful comment to him and he notified his supervisor. If this was a first instance than I agree this is way over the top by the supervisor NOT MM . However I highly doubt this was the guys 1st documented occurrence.
Talk about throwing people under the bus !!!

Speaking from a legal and management perspective these are not question that can or should be answered publically. But as you acknowledge, from a management perspective related to Public Relations - this is incompetent management regardless of the answers to the above questions.

You can bet that management will secretly drop some unnamed PR spin that will show up in print, but in doing so ultimately they only dig a deeper grave given the current atmosphere.

Some one needs to grab ahold of this and manage containment - even if it means re-instating this guy temporarily or standing firm by backing the grounds supervisior...

Loose lips sink ships, and without tighter managment this baby is sadly going down.

Does anyone else find it curious that this incident didn't become public for a whole week and only after the last embarassing loss in Tampa and the chorus of fans calling for MM's head?

I don't! The firing of a grounds keeper is not news on the surface, but when it emerges that it was the result of expressing something that likely lies somewhere between "Hey Coach, let's get the boys ready to kick some butt this weekend" and "Hey Coach, let's get the boys ready and not lay an egg" it becomes News.

Of course it becomes magnified news because the management and coaching staff are under closer scrutiny - microscopic - and fans and readers are unhappy, but it does not make the timing fishy or strange.

However, planting your question would/could be a viable PR strategy in discrediting the issue long enough to hope a win on Sunday buries this story. Of course it is magnified if they "lay an egg" at Lambeau on Sunday.

IF-IF I say, McCarthy had ANYTHING to do with this, it's pretty thin skinned for a Pittsburgh tough guy.

I think the whole Pittsburgh tough guy routine is and has always been a joke.

First off, I have been a lot of places and Pittsburgh does not even come close to a top 10 tough guy places in my experience...

Secondly, If there is such an image, pudgy (I want everybody to like me) Mike McCarthy is probably not it.

Finally, of the coaching staff Mike Trgovac is a tough guy, Kevin Green is a tough guy, Darren Perry is a tough guy... Mike McCarthy is more of a Pillsbury Doughboy than a tough guy in most guys eyes despite the PR makeover when he was hired.

You are right about that one. I should have worded it, a so called Pittsburgh tough guy. The Packers or the beat writers tried to pass that characterization off on us when McCarthy was first hired. Never did seem to fit him. I still think having that thin of a skin, if in fact he did have anything to do with this, is not a very good thing for someone in his position and could lead him to sleepless nights and ulcers.Not to mention more and even nastier ridicule.

I'm amazed at the presumptions and extrapolations that fans are making about this guys dismissal. Where does all this "knowledge" and "certainty" regards the "facts" come from? I realize that Packers are publicly owned and fans gain a sense of entitlement about the running of the organization, but outside of being the receipent of this guys comment(s), how does MM get tied into the matter (?) and "Packer management" suddenly become "incompetent" over his dismissal? With the info known too date, how can those judgements be reached? The timing and decision to dismiss this guy shouldnt be based on the current Packer record and/or the potential PR fallout - that would be an injustice indeed!

To jump to the conclusion that MM's failure to save this guys job is "likely another nail in his quickly closing coffin" is an overstep at best. I want a football coach and will judge MM's suitablity to be the Packers HC based on football-related matters - not some contrived clumping of disparate and inconclusive "facts".

Well, you're nothing if not consistent.

This is ridulous. I don't buy for one second that all the guy said was something like "hey coach, let's not lay an egg this week" or "let's kick some tail" and that was what got him fired, even if MM heard it or not. The Packers said he was fired for saying inappropriate things. These are inappropriate? If this was his sole transgression then the Packers will really have a PR mess on their hands but I seriously doubt anyone at 1265 is that stupid. I suspect we'll find out there is a lot more to this story than is being told as of now.

Fact of Life: Take a jab at someone in your company who is at the top when you are at the bottom and it's a very good bet you'll be out of a job. Even when jobs are hard to come by some people still can't control themselves.

Read what was written.

This organization has been a PR nightmare for a couple of seasons.

There is nothing sudden about the questioning of leadership and management in Green Bay. It started last year nationally and has gained momentum as the team has faltered this season.

The team that was the winningest franchise from '94 through '04 without a single losing season is coming off of a 6 -10 season and has not exactly performed anything close to expectation thus far this season. His evaluation is and should be based on his performance as a football coach

Further, I have not called for any one's head. In fact I said speculating about replacement is premature and a waste of time. I commented on a PR mis-step at a time of turmoil.

I would counter that you should check your own "presumptions and extrapolations" as I have made no presumptions or extrapolations of the facts here. Instead I simply commented on Public Relations which is about image and customer relations -- which by the way are the responsibility of Management in this multi-Billion dollar industry.

This article about his firing showed up in the main-stream media in the largest market in the state and the most read newspaper covering the Packers - to dismiss it as posters "presumptions and extrapolations" seems ignorant of the role of management IMO

I'm not a guy who over-reacts or is hasty in critique, but I am also a guy who is not prone to follow the directive, "ignore the man behind the curtain, there is nothing to see here" either.

you only need a reason to fire someone when you don't want to pay unemployment. Wisconsin is a Right to Work State.

This just amazes me. I have become annoyed with this current regime as much as the next person. However with so little facts and only 1 side of the situation aired there are some very over the top comments. The title of this thread "Jerk" states it all . As much as I hate to see the administration be involved with situations like this I am more shocked by the overall tone of this story and the lack of facts portrayed. Seems to me the media has an agenda.

The media always has an agenda - to sell newspapers and make money, just as the Packers have an agenda - to sell product and make money.


The Green Bay Packers organization and structure is a unique situation, but it gets a pass from the media far more than large media centers which are ruthless and far more quick to judgement and criticism than anything we see here in WI

Please no, I dont want to hear about the "Broom Level"

Yeah, but we could hear every week about how he was going to get it fixed

It's ok. MM will soon follow after the season ends! BYE BYE!

If he does take over the maintenence department we might have a better chance of getting things cleaned up

It's stupid that this is even being talked about.

I have to admit there are a lot of Joe Beer Gut fans out there taking this article at face value. My office here is buzzing about it. It might be worth the time for the Packers organization to put their version of the story out there. Although it probably won't make a difference. People will believe the version of the story they want to believe. And after last week, few are in the mood to give McCarthy or management the benifit of the doubt.

If the Packers were 6-2 right now and hadn't just lost to a winless team, it wouldn't be.

I'm sure you're right. Frankly, I'm a bit PO'ed that the local media is distracting the team like this on Cowboys week.

Here's what happened:

1. This guy made some remark to McCarthy. Whatever it was, it rubbed him the wrong way.
2. McCarthy said something to the effect of "What's that guy's problem?", which got back to someone in the guy's management chain.
3. Someone in said management chain decided to cover his butt by firing the guy, reasoning that (1) he's easy to replace and (2) it's better to do so then risk him pissing off anyone else in upper management.

If this seems implausible to you, you've obviously never worked for a big company (or work at the best big company ever, in which case let me know where to send my resume).

In any event, the guy probably didn't deserve to get fired, but it's not exactly shocking that he did. Part of that "life not fair" thing.

Not only that MM did not fire him. People really need to mellow out on this...

But if he reported it and that resulted in guy being fired, it really is pathetic. Some wonder if that guy's performance was marginal, and all I can say is if that was the case why had he been there twenty-two years? This isn't some clown with a couple years under his belt, it was a twenty-year veteran. Even if he did say "Don't lay an egg," getting fired after that long tenure is utterly absurd. What is the worst interpretation of his comment? He was hoping the Packers wouldn't play badly? He gets fired for that? That's just weird!

This happens all the time in larger companies for the reasons I laid out in my post.

It's useful as an object lesson in the cowardice and CYA instincts typical of middle management, but nothing else.

Except we're not exactly a 'model' corporation in any respect. We don't have to turn a profit, in fact that's antithetical to our existence, and should never in any vein resemble a 'larger company.' It's a whole different paradigm with the Packers, we're virtually unique--and should cherish that.

I like MM, and don't want him fired, but if he had anything to do with this it's downright pathetic. So what if a long-term Packer employee said "don't lay an egg?" What kind of loser would interpret that as a firing offense? Odds are the guy meant it in a positive fashion, firing him for it after so many years of service is just....pathetic.

Would you please share experiences from the "larger" company you work for? Also, are you above or below "middle management" at your current position?