Remember the '99 season?

Wolf played Wolf and said he'd wait until the season was over to evaluate. Murphy just displayed identical similar like words. RW had said after a certain loss that his mind was made up and needed to go another direction after firing Rhodes. Just the fact that we are seeing and hearing from Murphy; speaks volumes. Don't kid yourselves; there was a very hot board of directors after this last loss. they were upset of the Favre-Gate last year; then we lose in Min; then get our butts handed to us at home; but to lose to a team that was win-less was a straw that broke the proverbial camel back. Anything short of making the play-offs and at least MC is gone; if not both.

Read Butler's comments today and they aren't very encouraging are they?

Now for the it begins part? Remember the finger pointing 'said was coming? Anyone read MC's comments? He says his schemes and so on aren't the problem and if one reads between the lines; said it was players.

Money is not going to be the issue for getting rid of TT or MC; believe that.

Murphy "gets it" he understands the disappointment, the championships and what's expected in GB; from it's owners, boards and fans.

Now for a different reply- We spoke of small school players a lot here. Listening to the "Herd" yesterday and Collin went through Dallas, Steelers; Indy; Pats.......on small school that made it. Even mentioned Driver from Alcorn State.

I doubt any team loses more players each year to FA and has to replace players more then the Steelers and yet they are competitive every year. Both Steelers and Pats started out slow this year for different reasons; but are turning it on now. And we seem to be going opposite; baring a miraculous turnaround (one can hope for it right?)

The Steelers seem to do it through mainly drafting; while Pats use both Draft and FA. I'm starting to think this blame is 2 fold between TT and MC and if one change is made; odds are maybe both. Though; TT maybe sees another year.

Thoughts?

Good post. You're right about the BoD. I would add the Vikings have done a much better job building their roster, and that's what really hurts. There are others, but with the Vikes in the same division it hits home the hardest.

What none of us know for sure is how much TT's hands have been tied with all the unrest coming up i nthe next two years. The Packers are not going to publicly state "We're holding onto every penny we can, and sacrifice this year for the long term stability of the franchise." But that may be exactly what they're doing.

So that would explain why TT hasn't brought it higher level FAs the past couple years. BUT it does not cover his butt for his drafts. While he hasn't been horrible in his drafts, that really shouldn't be the bar in Green Bay.

The more I watch this team, I honestly think a lack of talent is a bigger issue than MM and his staff not being able to "coach them up." The O line is a disaster and guys like Colledge, Barbe, and Breno G are just not good football players. They don't have top talent at RB, and they still haven't solved the Safety problem ever since Butler retired.

I didn't want my post to develop into a personnel discussion, that's OT. But my point is I don't think MM or any coach can do much with a horrific O line. No sense doing anything now, but if it continues like this I would fire TT and let the new GM make his own decision about MM. The problem with TT goes beyond roster development, he is horrible at PR and that does matter in today's NFL.

Was thinking after reading your post: I really wonder who has how much input on the final roster? With RW and MH; they did it together. But, some of the departures haven't made much sense and who was kept also........

On OL- we have spent and spent draft picks on guys; more then any other area on the team and for our OL to suck this bad has one's head scratching.

On your MM or TT issue on whether it's coaching or the players; I would have to say it's both faults. But in my eyes; this team is more talented then it's showing and there seems to be more problems on the coaching end...from players not buying in, Defense yelling let us loose, poor execution, poor play calling etc. In Pre-Season or before that even; in training camp; was suppose to be much harder to make a more physical team. That hasn't worked for squat. And the other thing too is that this coaching staff has gone from smaller athletic OL for zone blocking to supposedly bigger guys from a run block background. Haven't seen any nasty attitude run blockers on this team yet.....especially Colledge; as he's like a flood gate that never closes. We need one of the guys like Tootie Robins, Dotson, Wahle, Timmerman type...someone who brings it and the attitude to that OL.

These comments Mac made are kind of gnawing at me. It's just so passive-aggressive. Which basically reflects his coaching to this point. If you were the coach, would you watch guys make the same mistakes over and over and over again, yet continue to give them the opportunity to do so? If it's the personnel, why not just say "I'm going to go through the roster until I find a player who can get it right". Do bad players really just get worse with more experience and good coaching? I don't think he spends enough time with this team on getting things right. It seems like when he conducts a practice he's more concerned with the volume of teaching than the quality. I haven't been to a practice, maybe someone who has could confirm or deny what I suspect. I get the impression that he has a schedule, ("we'll spend X amount of time on each point") that he is determined must be kept, rather than working on something until it is understood and perfected by all. I guess what I'm saying is, he seems to be more interested in doing a whole lot of stuff half assed, than just doing anything really well.

Another thing that's really bugging me lately is the PC culture with this administration. As a vet, I understand when you have everybody just spouting off, it undermines authority and decays morale, but Gawd this is the worst case of Big Brother I've ever seen. Every time a player says something that calls the administration into question, he's quickly debriefed and recanting, "after speaking with the coach I have been informed of, and understand what I really meant to say".

I've seen a lot of these players do things in the past that suggest to me that they have it in them to be good football players. You could argue that every dog has it's day, or you could argue that even a good dog can be turned bad in the wrong hands.

I don't see any reason to believe the Packers organization would be so incredibly short-sighted as to damage their brand in the long term to save money and retain someone they believe can't win.

I also don't believe the Packers are the sort of organization who would do something like fire a coach in the middle of the season or undercut them while they're still in Green Bay -- teams that do that are teams with classless ownership, and the Packers are not one of those teams.

Barring a significant level of success in the second half, it seems unlikely to me that McCarthy returns -- he just hasn't succeeded as head coach. It seems equally likely that Thompson will return, much to the dismay of those who hate him because of the Favre situation.

You really don't want a situation where the players feel free to spout off about the coaches in public. Trust me on this one -- all it does is poison the culture of the team in ways that can take years to heal.

We have no 'leader' on this team since Brett left.

Face it, he was the guy. He could step up and say 'we are gonna do it', whether by his rep., his words or his deeds.

We no longer have that and it shows.

M3 is going to start Lang this week against Dallas and not in Cliftons LT spot. He will either start at RT or LG, very interesting!

More musical chairs = failure.

That was my first impression.

But thinking further, Lang did ok at LT given his experience and the circumstances. Maybe the coaches have discovered a player and are looking to get him in somewhere. Of course Colledge seems to be a weakness and RT isn't manned very well right now.

Hope MM don't read my post cause he'll have Lang at LG this week and put him at RT next week.

You are probably right, but I think most people, or speaking for myself, think that TT has just not built a winning team. Not enough effort and results in the draft and free agency.

What was Ted thinking when he decided to to keep Bush? Everytime that guy jogs onto the field I mentally calculate the new score. Not even his ST's play is that outstanding. He is a huge liability and is killing the defense.

Not that think MM is a good coach, but in his defense, he really doesn't have a great caliber of players to work with. That OL is a disaster and I think the "musical chairs" has been realy about trying to find something....anything.... that will work. Square pegs in round holes. Those guys are just not good.

I do not think MM has done a good job with Rodgerrs, nor has he done enough with the offense to minimize the impact of the horrible OL. He needs to get back to running a true West Coast offense and utilize a lot more play action, quick slants, and misdirection running plays. At least do something to keep the defenses on their heels. We obvious can't line up and run straight at them.

I truly hope they both go. Get a fresh start next year with a new philosophy and a new direction. The direction that points the team up... not down.

I share similar feelings about why I want TT to go. It has nothing to do with the Favre thing. I don't know why that always seems to get brought into the discussion when refering to anyone that no longer wants to see TT as GM.

Right now I could care less about the Favre crap, that is done and over.

TT is just as much to blame for this current situation as MM, maybe more because he hired MM.

Hey appreciate the responses from everyone here!

Phil-love that graphic; but was wondering if you could the same graphic with urphy eying up both TT and MC?


Anyone read JS today? Philbin saying we've been out-coached and soforth; but very subtle like. It sure sounds like MC doesn't have the answers. Definately knows what the problems are; but for some reason doesn't seem to have answers that this board has come up with.....It's a sad situation for the team and it's fans.

I would but I'm not very good with graphics, I found this one on the net somewhere. If someone with the skills could make me one that would be cool. I added some text for enhancement, though.

Agree, I thought the Favre move was needed, but his lack of putting a decent roster together is what swayed me. You go through this roster and its filled with old tackles, old corners, and a bunch of mediocre player. His drafting is suspect at best and I have little confidence in him usingthe tools neccessary (Draft, FA, Trades) to build a competitive roster.

If the team lets MM go after the season, do you feel confident that TT will pick the right guy for the opening? That's where my thinking always leads me when I consider what moves the Packers may need to make after this season is over.

Would Murphy be in on the hiring or would it be just up to TT?

I couldn't begin to say how that process is carried out. No real knowledge. But it's my understanding that the GM is usually given most of the responsibility for hiring the coach. I suppose Murphy and the board would have plenty of input this time around, however. I just have a feeling they won't let him hire another "yes Ted" kind of guy.

As other people have posted it would be a waste of time to fire MM and not TT. In a year or two if they fire TT they would likely be starting all over again.

I like the idea of firing TT now, he doesn't have much to do until draft time anyway. Maybe that would light a fire under Mike, I remember liking his game planning and play calling a couple of years ago.

omg. It's college football season. I'd imagine that in addition to the team's personnel matters, TT is doing an awful lot of scouting this time of year.

Correct, JAS... in addition to IR/roster moves and practice squad shuffling.

Last season TT made 13 roster moves between 11/13/08 and 12/18/08: IR'ing Tauscher, Barnett, Pettway, P. Lee and Bigby; elevating from a PS Havner, Malone, Porter, Toribio, McCaskill; and signing Kapinos... in addition to restocking the PS w/ guys like D. Brooks & F. Bledsoe.

Nah, How many players are there to scout. No more than a few thousand. Didn't you know he just sits on the 4th floor and watches it snow all winter.

He's busy scouting 250 lb Offensive linemen and slow RBs, leave him alone.

nice.

Judging from what was reported in the Murphy interview he stays away from day to day football operations TT is responsible for. This is the Mark Murphy who played Safety (I think) for the Redskins SuperBowl teams of the 1980's, so he has been around the NFL as a player. This gives me some comfort knowing he wasn't just a executive in college football.

I remember the '99 season well. I even recall the time that Ron Wolf came down to the sidelines (on national TV--not sure whom they were playing) and that caused a big stir. If Mark Murphy likewise appears on the sidelines, in similar fashion, the proverbial fat lady will be at the bench tuning up.

I believe Wolf came down to observe in a game at Dallas. Will Murphy come down to observe this Dallas game...