"This is my responsibility," McCarthy said. "We were not prepared to the level that we should have been."

You are damned right that this team was not prepared and YOU are responsible - how about accepting some of that responsibility and doing something about it rather than simply offering more lip-service???

While there is plenty of accountability to be called to task (players and coaches), Mike McCarthy was outcoached and outprepared by a new staff without a single NFL win until yesterday. This is UNACCEPTABLE!!!!

When I heard that Mike McCarthy had told newscasters before the game that he hoped to take the game quickly and get his young guys in there I feared that this team was taking this game too lightly and the responsibility for that lies with the Head Coach.

It is bad enough to be thoroughly outcoached by 'Chili' twice, but this cannot continue.

Firing the Head Coach in the middle of the season is unlikely, but something has to change NOW!

Wow, that attitude/mindset is unacceptable.

It certainly is! And it has infected this team in disasterous ways.

I've not really taken a hard stance on the fire/don't fire MM or TT debate, but if the guy really said that out loud then someone in the building needs to sack up and give MM an earful. Like a big time earful. I don't see TT doing it.

I have a hard time calling anyone out for the performance on the field in 09 because I'm not in the meetings and I'm not a football coach, but if that quote actually happened then -something- needs to be done. Hell, I expect an apology to the fans from McCarthy himself.

This may be because I am a little under the weather today but the more and more I think about it, the more I want TT & MM gone NOW. No point in waiting. I want something to happen. These two will not get this team anywhere. Murphy needs to show he has some balls and fire these two clowns immediately. I honestly don't care who would take over now. They would not do any worse.

Bruce I can not add anymore than I have already added in other Post. I am exhausted and simply put one ticked off Packer fan today. You are correct this was unacceptable from MM, Capers Slocum, Campen, Philben. This was a poop by all the men that are supposed to be getting these young men prepared. I want a change now but know that is unrealistic MM and this staff need to go 6-2 to save their jobs IMO. However if they go 5-3 it will be looked as an improvement and probably saves there hides. However if they go 4-4 or worse there will be a change. I would hate to change the D again but if that has to happen so be it. TT' job is probably safe for at least a new coach however I am sure they are looking at his performance very closley and will be under the microscope.

You better believe there is internal bickering going on.

It's pretty consistent with his "this is not a must win situation yet" stance of last year. His even keel attitude is really wearing thin on me. Every game is must win, every game is urgent, and every game is one to get fired up for.

When TT spoke of his Pittsburgh tough guy attitude, I had no idea that was the equivalent of a grade school librarian.

This guy needs to start doing something instead of just talking about what needs to be done.

He could start with firing his OL coaches today. Seriously, what harm could come from replacing them at this point.

Amen! This is definitely a situation that has gotten out of hand. As you write, the buck has to stop at MM's doorstep. I'd be willing to give TT another year, with the understanding that he needs to feel a sense of urgency when free agency comes around.

- Why should we expect MM to survive for the remainder of the season?
- Does the board and/or TT need to see MORE HC ineptitude to make a decision?
- Why must the entire '09 season be in the toilet, when there's still a 1/2 season for someone (Capers?, Moss?) to at least TRY putting an NFL-quality team on the field?
- McCarthy's has not only lost the fans' support, but his own players' as well - it's time for an immediate change.
- Cancerous/useless players get cut mid-season (Chambers, LJ), why not a coach to at least give a team hope? A young team without direction can do A LOT of long-term damage to it's players, teaching them the "losing mentality".

McCarthy in all his years here has never shown that he has potential to be a great or even a good coach. How many times do I have to read that he has been out coached.

Well there will be another one next week.

How bad has TT and MM made this team.......on the surface financially the team appears to be healthy but what's it going to cost to fix their wrongs.? Did TT's tight wallet, conservative approach to free agency and draft heavy philosphy put the Pack in a real bad place for years to come? Has MM's inconsistant play calling and lack of accountability put AR mindset in a bad spot for good?

Joe....any word on the street about these clowns run out of town?

McCarthy is here for awhile, get used to it. While he isnt blameless in this, I put much of this on Thompson. His oline is garbage and Lombardi himself would have trouble with this talent level. You can yell at these guys 24 hours a day, scream in their ears, fine them, if the talent isnt there. it isnt there. You dont think McCarthy has been in his coaches faces?, hes not stupid, he knows whats going on. Thompson has attempted built this OLine with a bunch of small school players who spent 4 years playing against St Marys U. Wolf primarily went after big school lineman, Clifton (Tennessee), Rivera (Penn State), Aaron Taylor (Notre Dame), Tauscher (Wisconsin) and took a late round flyer on Timmerman. We got schools like Idaho St, Eastern Mich, Central Florida, Missouri Southern St. I'll give you Louisville as a big school. It doesnt mean you cant find good lineman at smaller schools, but you cant build your entire offense around a collection of them IMO. Yes it can come down to coaching, but the deck is stacked against you.

As I stated before, I dont think McCarthy is blameless in this, but he's been given crap to work with on that OL. There are other phases of the game that fall on McCarthy, but at a $12 million buyout. I'd much rather buy out Thompson at $6 million. His drafting record doesnt help with guys like Harrell, Brohm, Brandon Jackson, Colledge, and Hawk in the top rounds. Those guys are all disappointments. We are stuck with McCarthy, you might as well get him some talent and see what heppens. I just dont have confidence in Thompson getting that talent based on his past record and philosophies.

Wow, where did you hear this? Thats shockingly bad.

I think it's very clear that both of these guys have put the Pack in a very bad place but continuing the status quo will cost more in the long run. Time to cut bait and use the money TT stored away to run both of them out of town.

The Packers need a GM that understands the proud history of the franchise and wants to bring a championship back to Titletown. I never saw any of those things with TT and it appears that players feel the same way as free agents don't look to the Pack as a place to get the ring.

Dom Capers was a Head Coach......just sayin'.

This from his news conference today:

"I'm very confident in our structure. Offensive line, the way we've built our staff is structured by design. We have a high level of experitise. ... On special teams, Shawn Slocum has done a good job,"

LOL.

How is this year's line much different than the one in '07?

'07 - Clifton, Tauscher, Colledge, Wells, Spitz/Coston
'09 - Clifton/Lang, Tauscher/Barbre, Colledge, Spitz/Wells, Sitton

McCarthy was able to work with that group, and have a top offense, in '07. Now in '09 they're all crap? I'm not giving TT a pass for not having better OT's on the roster, but the Tackles aren't the entire reason for the OL collapse.

Zone blocking scheme (McCarthy), predictable playcalling (McCarthy), failure to hold asst. coaches accountable (e.g. Slocum, Campen - McCarthy), lack of player motivation (McCarthy) all fall on MM. Obvious deficiencies, breakdowns and problems that "need to be cleaned up" and repeatedly are not - ALL on McCarthy.

Side offer - I'll gladly pay the Packers $10,000 towards firing MM, in exchange for 2 season tickets in 2010 and the rights to continue keeping those seats. They'd need to find 1,400 more seats - but this deal would pay for MM's buyout (in addition to the actual ticket cost). What say you, Murph?

Holy crap.

I can't believe he said that. It's not even kind of believable. Proof is in the pudding, Mikey. Your team -- and its structure -- sucks.

How the heck can he say that with a straight face?

Either he is a fool, or he lying and thinks we are stupid enough to have confidence in that dumb comment.

He should be saying things are not working and we WILL fix things or people will be held accountable.

Clifton and Tauscher were on their last legs back then. Surgeries later, now they are just non blocking blocking corpses.

Agree with the rest, but the bottom line is I dont see us giving MM $12 million and then having to replace him with more $. If he had one more year, yes I say get rid of him, but this is conservative Green Bay. The EC isnt going to eat that kind of money. GB's hands are tied, and McCarthy is beating a dead horse (at least he's beating something) with the talent on that OL. I expect more of the same the rest of the season. These guys just arent that good, and McCarthy waving a magic wand isnt going to fix it.

Have you considered that he is NOT just offering lip-service, he IS accepting responsibility, that he IS doing everything he can do or and is simply failing to turn them around, for whatever reason?

I think it's folly to think that every problem has a solution that can be implemented and implemented immediately, and further that results will come from said implementation. Not every problem can be fixed by working harder or talking different. Sometimes these things just have to work themselves out. And sometimes people, despite their hard work, good intentions and dedication, are part of the problem and can therefore never be part of the solution.

I don't know what the solution is, but I'm pretty confident that Mike McCarthy is part of the problem. I'm not even angry about it. It's nothing personal, he just failed. Try as we might, sometimes people just fail at things. Nothing more to see here. He needs to be gone. I don't expect it to happen during the season but he's officially a lame duck. Again, I don't have insider access to anything but my impression is that, as much as McCarthy truly believes in his players, they don't believe in Mike McCarthy. They don't believe they've been consistently put in a position to do their best and to win.

A team with better leadership among the player ranks may be able to work through something like this, but when the locker room is a ship with a small rudder, the coaching ranks must be strong. It's just dysfunctional right now.

Yeah, I actually had to read it twice to believe it myself. Fair enough- let him dig his own grave, I guess.

I saw the game from a web site and have to say...the Packers may have quit on MM.
I'm going to compare some moves by other teams to the Packers. In Dallas they have a receiver that is big and fast that they signed as a FA. He is now a starter and will be making waves soon enough-Miles Austin. TT has tried to do the same thing w/ Cullen jenkins and a few other linemen but no playmakers. In New Orleans, they signed anoother big and fast receiver in the last round and a RB that had very little potential. Colston and Pierre Thomas have made some huge contributions as playmakers. TT drafted Hawk and Raji with his prime picks and has yet to add a difference maker playmaker except for Rodgers. You might say Jennings and Finney but they have to show more the remaining season to solidify their reputation. So you have a good receiver corp but no RBs that could be considered playmakers. TT has really failed to have his 1-2-3 rd picks to step up and make a difference. One question could be even if you have playmakers, will they produce w/ this oline.
TT's drafting/aquireing talent-bottom line, fair talent not playing up to their potential and only one true playmaker.

Coaching from the oline to OC seems to be in question. What I haven't seen in any game this year is consistentcy. I am very surprised that a new coach hasn't been added to help with the o-line. I would say that since the 2007 season, haven't seen consistent performance from the off. and Special tms.
Coaching performance-offense, special teams unacceptable, defense only OK.

So what can happen this year? No player pick-up will help. TT has no magic to provide. MM can he make the player's play better? Doubt it, without adding something to the mix. If Green Bay ends the season 8-8 at this point, I will be happy. Anything better, would be considered an upset. After the season, expect to see the other side of the coaching group to be replaced. Maybe even bring Jag back.

I'm not a fire TT and MM guy. I don't live in Green Bay but have been a Packer fan since I followed pro football. If you hate TT or MM because Favre is no longer on the team, your right but I'm not that guy. It's hard to find good GMs and while everyone may want to see a change, which I think we all do from a performance standpoint, firing TT and MM will not take the Packers where we want them to go. Cower had his bad years but management decided he was good enough to keep. He rewarded them w/ a SB win. MM may be able to do the same thing but at this point he has only shown everyone that he doesn't do a very good job of hiring asst. coaches.

I read every article I could leading up to the Minny game and the concensus seemed to be that MM was a very good to great game planner. I have got to disagree and it is not because of this week alone but it certainly shines a brighter light on the problem.

My issue is the continued 15-20yrd routes that all 4 WR's (or TE) run. There needs to be one target running a 5-7yd drag across the middle, or a RB slippng out of the back field. The Tampa game was a prime example. MM said in his presser that he thought we had an advantage in the passing game and would go back to that plan today. Stubborness and arrogance will get a guy fired!

This game plan requires a 5 step drop at a minimum. We know (as does every NFL Def Coor) that we struggle with pass protect. To help AR we need 3-4-5 screens (RB and WR) each game, 3-4-5 quick slants each game, planned passes to the RB's instead of just the checkdowns.

At the height of Ahman's success he was catching 60-70 passes. Now what do our RB's tally.

THe offensive guru is installing what appears to me to be a very vertical passing attack for an offense that can't maintain their blocks long enough to execute the plan. Then when it is obvious that our WR's aren't having success geting open MM continues to call the same plays and I guess expects that the results will be different. We ran one screen that Green dropped. THat was it.

I think a good game planner knows his teams strength's and designs a scheme that fits. Seems obvious huh.

Line is the same but the QB is not. In '07, quick slants, screens and 5 wide took the pressure off. Rodgers cannot read the defenses quick enough.

There's still no way defenses should be able to rush just a couple of guys and get to the QB that quickly -- I don't care if the QB is a blocking sled.

I don't think Campen can implement his scheme, and I don't think the Packers have coaches who can develop the guys who need to execute it.

To be fair, what is he supposed to say? Unless you're going to fire the ST coach, you have to publicy support him. And really, what changes if he would fire the ST today? Same thing with the O line.

I get tired of hearing and reading the same answers over and over again, but when I calm down I realize there isn't much else MM can say. Talk is cheap anyhow. Either he turns this ship around or he doesn't. Nothing he says to the press has any effect on wins and losses.

We can compalin and cry all week, and have every right to do so. But the coaches and players have to move on to Dallas today. There is no other option.

I'm not even seeing many of those routes being called much in games. You can't throw a route that's not being run. I don't think Rodgers is the main problem.

As mentioned frequently here, the play calling has been puzzling to say the least. And I think maybe Rodgers is being too loyal to MM and his playcalling. Rodgers is playing the perfect soldier. He seems to run most of the plays called in w/out audibling too much. I think he's totally bought into the system and is trying to run exactly what MM calls. Hey, great 'team' guy, can't fault that. But GIGO.

What about the comment by mm that he thinks he may have worked the team too hard last week... Now that was classic...

The thing that concerns me the most is losing the players. Poor coaching can destroy a young player. Bruce referenced the players were pointing fingers(in a different Thread), that's not good. I suspect the pointing has been at the coaches. If the players start pointing at each other, that could be catastrophic. When a new coach comes in all team chemistry could be gone players hating one another locker-room a shambles. You need to blow up the team and start over, I fear this more than MM coming back for 2010.

Ya well, if I were him I'd have a 2-a-day this week.

I don't think this team has any strengths

I heard him say that yesterday on the radio and it was all I could do to not reach over and just turn the damned thing off. That one comment just reaffirmed what I've been suspecting for a year or more, and saying to everyone who'll listen for weeks now - this man is simply not a football coach. He's a coordinator, an "X's and O's" guy. He is not a leader of men. He is not an NFL head coach. Can anyone here imagine Vince Lombardi saying that? McCarthy'd better be careful walking past Vince's statue on his way into the building tomorrow, for fear it'll reach down and smite him.

If there's anyone left who seriously believes I'm wrong, and the man is indeed an honest-to-god NFL coach, I'd love to hear their reasoning. I'm not trying to bait anyone - I'm just genuinely wondering what the people who still think this guy is a legitimate head coach are seeing that I'm not.

Especially in light of what Butler said in his article; that the Pack didn't even practice in pads all week!

I took that line to mean that they didn't practice in pads every day of the week, but still the usual 1-2 padded practices. Who knows? The context is hard to figure in that one. LeRoy didn't go to journalism school.

He did make mention of not going in full pads but then went on to say no pads. I see your point but what 1-2 days would they have went in pads?

He sure does know football, though. After all, he agrees with almost everything we're all saying here. It goes without saying, he must be a very smart man.

rioptr, I absolutely agree that the players are losing/have lost belief in MM. However, I believe it goes further. I believe they are doubting Capers, Campen, Slocum, et. al. I also believe that the Packers will offer MM a buyout, so he can resign from the position, rather than be fired. This entire operation needs to be looked at, sparing no one. However, though we can wish for Cowher (not gonna happen) or one of the other "big name" coaches, they would not be the "magic bullet" (one of the regular contributors had a very enlightening and comprehensive look at this expectation).

If he IS accepting responsibility he should just resign and let the Packers who gave him a chance at HC save 12 Mill or at least get an agreement and just take half of that amount..

Otherwise is just lip service , offensive lip service...

I would have expected him to pull a TT and answer any questions regarding the staff with a few words that actually say nothing at all. That would have been much less insulting than suggesting Slocum is doing a good job. Especially when poor ST play has been a huge factor in two consecutive losses, and was probably the single biggest factor in the loss to TB.

Seriously, you want to get really angry, go read Murphy's Q&A at the Gazette website.

Couple that with the fact that Kampy might not play Sunday, this ship is sinker faster than the Titanic.