Probably the biggest indictment you can make about a Head Coach, and his coaching staff. Especially with a young team, you would expect to see several, if not many, players notiecable improve from the previous season. Who has? Sitton? That's the only and I mean ONLY guy I can think of. Maybe Finley too, if he can come back and stay healthy.

Everyone else is the same, or has even regressed (Colledge for example.) When you have a roster full of young layers, they should actually get BETTER right? Or is that a crazy notion?

Problem is, to be fair to MM, it's not clear how many of these guys just are not very good football players- and that would fall back on TT. But look at Barbe, Giacomini. Jackson, Nelson, Thompson, Montgomery...you can go on and on. Keep hearing about promise, and nothing evr comes to fruition. This roster is littered with way too many guys who contribute little or nothing.

I hear tell Matt Flynn looks pretty damn good compared to last year....

Wells, Grant, Pickett, Jones, Jolly.
Possibly Barnett.
I'd argue against you that Colledge has improved slightly, outwith the games at left tackle.
Driver, Woodson, Rodgers and Jenkins have maintained a very high standard.

It's not all doom and gloom.

Nice a player who practices better than last year.

Colledge has improved slightly? I don't even know how to respond to that, other than to say WOW. Barnett, Wells, Grant, Pickett, Jones, and Jolly are doing what they've always done. I don't see how any of them have improved.

IMO Colledge is our worst olineman. He seems lost when he plays.

I was listening to game yesterday on my phone. Yes, I get Wayne and Larry live on my phone. I was at a band competition for my daughter's school, so I was in and out the action.

I don't recall the play but Colledge got beat pretty bad. Then Larry or Wayne comments that Colledge can't let that happen, goes to say on a stunt like that you need to pick up your man and that Colledge is playing way to soft.

As to who has improved thier play this year? A few on ammek's list are playing about the same or only slightly better, after that ??????????

I'd agree with Flynn, and add Havner. I think Nelson was looking pretty decent before the injury. I don't know about Sitton. Didn't really see him last year. But he doesn't really appear to be all that special going from a supposed rookie
phenom to what he is now.

Not sure I'd agree with you on "everyone else is the same". It appears to me that far more players look worse this year than in the past. There seems to be more evidence by position groups.

OL- regressing
WR- regressing
TE- improving
QB- probably good arguement either way. Flynn is better, Brohm isn't much better. Rogers is making more bad decisions than he should, but playing pretty well
RB- regressing (It's understandable that Grant could only improve after injuy and hold out last year, but BJ and DW have clearly regressed)
DL- improving
LB- Hard to judge as a group. Some individuals are excelling, some have been stagnant. Improvement in results overall
DB- regressing
ST- hard to believe it could regress from last year

I think Barbe and Giocomini make good fodder for comparison. Giocomini looks slow and clumsy to me, and Barbre is supposed to be this freakish athlete for an OL, but you sure can't tell it by his performance. Both were basically drafted as projects. One a transitioned TE, the other from a small school.

It's not even just the regression from last year or previous years, but a lot of these groups and individuals look worse from week to week.

To me, it appears overwhelmingly like poor coaching. Even with adequate coaching there would be development of one or two players from poor drafting. I think the drafting is probably no worse than just mediocre. More mediocre at some positions than others, but the player development is far below mediocre.

Finley, Havner, Nelson, Sitton, Pickett, Jolly, Barnett, Chillar. Pickett and Jolly have been bright spots especially considering a big dropoff last year.

The biggest concern is the regression of key guys like Jennings, Colledge, Kampy, Wells/Spitz, Clifton, Tauscher, and possibly, Collins.

There are at least a few plays in nearly each game where I'm thinking to myself "How the hell is Colledge in the NFL?"
He's not a good backup let alone a starter.

Yeah, he's still massively inconsistent and will have a few horrible snaps a game. Don't get me wrong, I don't think he's a viable starter. But last year he was diabolical. He gave up 5.5 sacks (this year, in five games at left guard, he has been charged with one sack; I'm excluding the left tackle experiment which was an unmitigated disaster). He consistently got beat in short yardage. (This year he inconsistently gets beat.) And he's had to help out the tackle beside him a whole lot more. On the other hand, the penalties are worse.



You said improved from last year. All those players had down years last year, mainly because they were nicked up. They are now playing at their pre-2008 level. Not saying they're pro bowlers; just that they've recovered from an off-color season in the way that, say, Larry Johnson or Atari Bigby have not.

I think Arron Rodgers has improved, I think folks forget he has played in only 24 games.

John Kuhn. Total team player, strong work ethic, and has become a Lambeau fan favorite.

Kuhn, Jones, Finley, Sitton, Grant, Jenkins, Jolly, Pickett. Those are the starters (#3 WR notwithstanding) I feel have improved.

Interesting that you mention mostly vets (Wells, Pickett, Barnett) as guys who said have improved. Not sure if Barnett has improved, he has his moments but the knee is not there, may never be, Pickett is playing at the same level..Wells???. Jolly is in a contract year, he has reason to bust his A@@ Grant is not even back to form of 2nd half of 2007

Its the youth on this team that has not progressed and that speaks to the lack of depth and also weak special teams

Right, in fact my original post was talking about young players improving. I really don't believe Wells, Barnett, Jenkins, Pickett, Grant, etc. are different players than they were in the past. Even Jones- he's doing what he's always done when he's healthy.

Defeinitely Finley till he went down.

improving, huh? that's a toughie.

Sitton - you have to include him because he's starting regularly and probably has been the most consistent lineman. i don't recall yelling his name in a sentence containing an expletive this season, so that's a plus!

Jordy Nelson - looked good before the injury, especially consistent on KR. he's beating his man more regularly this season, but still needs to avoid the drops.

Havner - clear-cut choice. the move to TE really paid off! he looks like a natural, and i've even seen him throw a few good blocks too.

what's disappointing to me is that a lot of the guys we pegged for improvement prior to the season haven't done much. Jeremy Thompson, remember him? he was supposed to push for a starting job or at least be an athletic sub. Barbre, well we've all seen what's happened there.

I think the OP is dead on, that McCarthy's fatal flaw as a head coach is that he and his staff are seemingly unable to develop the "regular joe" players who form the core of the team. This seems especially true in line positions, special teams and for linebackers.

Credit where it's due, he did one heckuva job with Rodgers -- remember how he looked out of Cal? Also, Finley looks like he's coming along. Still, that just isn't enough.

I think a better question is has the coaching improved? MM is a young head coach but I don't see him getting better.
If he's not improving how can the players excel? I don't see the players buying into the system. What happen to having some creativity on offense and the countless STUPID penelties. MM not in control of this team and watching the game
the players eyes look like Mike Singletarys, but it's because they look LOST.

I would think the youth progressing would be one of the most important indicators. If they're not progressing, something is wrong.

How do you do this, Stuffin?

Hey got your PM and sent reply.

FYI everyone else.

I have SPRINT and there is an app that allows you to listen to NFL Radio Broadcasts. Believe they are the only ones who can do this.

I always had this theory.

The better the scheme and coach are, the more a below average or average player, can be made to look good.

The worse the scheme and coach are, the better the player needs to be, to overcome that.

McCarthy is not doing so well if this is the case.

I've mentioned a few times, MM seems to be able to make good players look ordinary.

i know Brad Jones was not on yhe team last year but I believe that we will see some exciting plays from him this week in Kampmans place. I say this not because Kampman has played bad but I believe Jones has some good natural talents and I cant believe that They have not used him in passing downs yet . To me lining Kampman up at LE with Jones coming behind him at OLLB is a winning combination that should be taken advantage of.