-As the mobs form at Lambeau with pitchforks and torches, Keep in mind TT and MM are under contract for 3 more years after this year. They likely arent going anywhere.

This team looked flat, dont know if it was the heat, or just uninspired play. Regardless it falls on McCarthy. I expect some players and coaches heads to roll after this one. We will see.

- The Special Teams coach can just stay in Tampa. Blocked punts, terrible return coverage, Crosby inconsistent week after week, its always something.

- REALLY disappointed in this OL. We knew they were terrible, but at crunch time they folded like a box and looked like they were on ice skates. You dont fix that overnight, and we have regressed.

- Congrats to Ahman Green.

This team should be embarrassed. This was a rookie QB, and a winless team who simply gave more effort than GB did. The Packers were outplayed and outhustled by a far inferior team.

The game really speaks for itself, and a new approach is needed. The offense is vanilla, the players arent inspired, and just finished one of the worst performances in recent Packer memory.

But on the bright side, we are the youngest team in the NFL. That gets us some kind of award, right?

I do believe TT gets another year however crap or get off the pot. This is a results orientated league and his way is not woring.

I think the entire coaching staff should be embarrassed..... But on Monday, McCarthy will talk about pad level and cleaning things up....... I have pretty much lost faith in him.

The Packers have the money to buy them out, don't use that as an excuse. I'm not paying 0.5% sales text for the next dozen years to have them be afraid to fire someone they extended who can no longer get the job done. Either it's working or it's not, if it's not, changes must be made. They have the money.

I will go buy a pack of kleenex now to cry my Packer sorrows, and will be praying that the $0.02 going to the Packers for buying it in Brown County can be used to buy out TT & MM's contracts.

I was thinking that buying out McCarthy might be a great use of the money Ted hasn't been spending on free agents. If you're not going to spend it on players, might as well spend it on coaches.

I disagree. I think MM will talk about how disappointed he is that the team wasn't better prepared, about the poor play of ST's, and just a general letdown after losing to the Vikings. Then, he'll state, "But, we'll be ready for the Cowboys", or words to that effect.

MM will NOT call out specific coaches or specific players, but point to "crucial breakdowns on offense and defense" that will be looked at, or addressed, or whatever. What won't change is that an underperforming Packers team lost to a vastly underperforming Bucs team. There is no excuse for this loss. TB came out to win. GB came out... and that was about it. TB totally outplayed GB in every phase of the game. Please spare me the statistics that show the Packers won this statistical battle, or that stat battle- they got their butts kicked in every phase of the game. Sure, there were some bright spots, but in the end, TB had more spirit and wanted the game more than GB did.

I started the game day thread by stating that this should be a win. I still believe that. However, if this is the best we can expect from this squad- offensensively, defensively, and on special teams- this will end up being another losing season. And, as far as I'm concerned, that means MM is gone. The heat then is turned onto the seat that TT is perching on.

No, this is not a reaction to one game, but a thoughtful response to a total body of work. MM has had one winning season so far. One. This was a "gimme" game, one that the overwhelming feeling was that this was a given victory. Still, TB is a professional team, and their athletes have pride and want to win. Apparently, more pride and more will to win than the Packers. And that can be traced to the HC.

And you have a better chance of winning the lotto than the Packers do of giving up $18 million to buy them out. Thats not including what it will take to get their replacements. Change is needed, but these guys are going to be here for awhile.

Brown County kleenex buying spree? Whose with me!? Me thinks we could raise a good chunk of that to get them out!

So another words coach speak?

That's a very sobering statement, but I think it'll hold true. No one going anywhere for a couple more years.

I am going somewhere!
Living about 20 minutes from The Bucs stadium ... after this game....... I have to move!

Anyone have a house for rent ????

It wasn't the heat. The wind and clouds from "IDA" made in pretty cool in Tampa. Id say the temps felt around 75 with the wind. It was not a HOT day at all.

BigBudman I respectfully disagree. If this team finishes 8- 8 someone will pay. The extentions came after a 13-3 season and what followed has been very dissapointing. Someone will pay it is the way it works in this business.

I just think the top 3 guys(murph, TT & MM) are forever linked because of the Favre incident and they are loyal to each other. They will give each other every chance to prove themselves right. That's just my opinion.

Opie would never fire Andy and Barney, it just won't happen.

Unfortunately I agree, I get that same feeling. Call it the "Curse of Favre," ...not so much that he's playing in Minny..but that he united those buffoons to be loyal to each other until the end of time

It appears TT & MM should be very thankful to Favre for their contract extensions. He covered up a lot of their warts. The sooner they are gone, the sooner Packer nation can heal.

Barring some miraculous turn of events, if MM is still around next season it's going to be tough to watch Packer football in 2010. This team has been flat week after week, and it only seams to be getting worse. I'm embarrassed by how thoroughly fooled I was by this team in the pre-season.

After today's game it's hard to picture us going better than 3-5 the rest of the way. 2-6 actually seems more likely. My silver lining it that it now seems more likely that we'll have a shot at a near-elite OT prospect in the draft.

I agree. Murphy has no control over Thompson, and MM is Thompson's man.

Good post, Ricky. A reeeeaaalllly good, depressing post. Sigh!....

I can't stand the thought of these Keystone Cops being here another three years. Losing to Tampa Bay should be the thing that gets them both canned. I hope there's more pride than this in the offices at 1265 Lombardi Ave.

I disagree about the length of both of their contracts.

Its just money. Ill trade money for winning any day.

Where to start. First off, TT and MM are not going to be magically let go tomorrow. Nor will they at the end of this year - unless we end the season 6-10 and the ship has sunk. So, lets move on beyond that. Not going to owe them $16 million and then have to dish out another $20 million for their replacements.

So, lets look at some realistic issues we have.

First off, I read another post that this team doesn't know who it is. Actually, I am not sure MM knows what it is. We talk about getting the running game going and then don't have enough confidence in it to run the ball on 3rd and 1. And once the ground game got moving, it seems that after a negative play, he goes away from it. We have got to be in the shotgun more than any other team and it is hard to be physical doing that.

We all know the OL is an issue, but how to solve it. First off, it has to start with coaching. At this point, Campmen has had plenty of chances to help these guys and it hasn't happened. He needs to be shown the door. Next, the revolving door of positions has got to end. Even in the game today, the rotation of tackles we a terrible idea. Granted Tausch goes out with an injury, but before that, Barbre had rotated in for a few series. Draft players, put them in a spot and leave them. At some point, some have to play multiple spots, but not early on.

Scrap the zone blocking scheme. This may help the run game and go back to the power man scheme. If Grant is the answer at RB and it appears the coaching stafff feels he is, he may be better in this scheme. He can not read the cut back lanes and with his head down all the time, he can afford to not see the hole in this scheme. Just go straight ahead.

Defensively, stop the Kampman experiment. Not working, never going to work, and admit it won't work. He is a detriment to this defense now and teams are exploiting him. Either move him back to the line or put him on the bench. Bigby is a no show most of the time, so move Woodson to safety and move Williams into his spot.

Special teams, start all over. New coach, new philosophy, new everything. Killing this team.

Front office, stop the thought that this team is as talented as any other. TT has over-estimated this team and its talent and it shows. We have lots of average talent on this team that is playing and in crucial positions. Our depth is thin and TT has not addressed the major issues this team has - both lines.

And MM, settle down and get control of this thing. Hold guys resposnsible and sit them or cut them. Find an identity for this offense and stick to it.

Me too. But would the Board of Directors?

IMO winning will cover the losses. In other words...yes they would agree.

I think the Packers would rather win and lose some money then lose and lose some money.

Actually, I think that's a big part of the problem. The fans there are so loyal, will this team lose money even if it's losing? I'm not so sure. Seems they've sold out games forever, even during the 70's-80's. This is a franchise like no other. Sad to see it floundering like this. Brett must be laughing his head off.

Ted has divided this fan base with the handling of Favre and everything else. People are going to start walking away if things are not changed IMO.

This isnt the 70s and 80s when we were just flat out bad. We are seeing some pretty bad history made right before our eyes.

If you pay Favre 20 Million not to play...(he's way more valuable then TT or MM) Why not pay TT and MM not to manage and coach?

No brainer decision

I still put a big part of the Favre debacle squarely on Brett. The retired, unretired, retired, unretired, etc., etc., nonsense got real old for this Packer fan. I think Ted's inability to communicate well during that fiasco has put him in a tough position with a divided fan base. I think people would have been fine with it if the Packers were a well oiled machine; except our team stinks. If Ted had built a disciplined powerhouse with a great OL, the fans would not be divided at all and we wouldn't be having this conversation. But alas, we are having this conversation.

I put it on Brett also but TT and the rest of the org. had the final say and they all knew by not letting him back they were creating a pretty big SH**storm.

I agree that IF we were good this conversation would not be going on but we ARE having it and both of us know who is to blame for the last couple seasons.

If big changes dont come by Tuesday then Ill be dissapointed.

I supported TT and MM through the whole Favre fiasco, and I still do. It was the right decision. Even with Favre's play in MN so far, looking back it was the right move. Failure to build a winning team around Rodgers, along with the same tired excuses week after week, is an entirely different issue. Favre is in the past and I could care less if or how he continues to play. But if we have a losing season again this year, it's time for some changes.

Build smhild....its a win now league and we are not doing it.

Never in our lifetime. The waiting list is too long for tickets. the economic landscape that this team will face without a CBA will not allow them to break the bank. Remember the TV deals expire in 2011, BEFORE Thompsons and McCarthys deal are up. This team will not eat those deals and then look to sign some "big name" when in history of this team has that ever happended

MM said today after the game

"We have some recurring problems that we have not cleaned up yet.”


We need to bring in a cleaner


Can we find one bt Tuesday?

Sounds like a coach who may have lost the team, not this week but a few weeks ago. That said I still believe its as much of a talent issue as it is coaching.

I just don't know how he could lose the team. Not sure but there seems to be a void in the veteran leadership department. It would seem to me, that there are enough veterans on this team that could possibly help in pulling this thing together. Maybe a byproduct of being so young, as a team, is that there's no experience in weathering in-season storms. The team needs to buckle down and rely on the process in order to get on the right track. It's when they don't believe in the direction, when problems arise.

Agree. I could see a dumping of Thompson at 2mill per season making a total of a $6 million payout. Doable but highly unlikely. We are stuck with McCarthy. The Favre thing has nothing to do with my opinion. This team has so many problems: special teams are terrible, linebackers not producing, OL cant run block or pass block, Nick Collins showing up once a month in games, no gamebreaking running backs. I dont think the Murphy/EC would do anything even if they wanted. We dont know the impact of a potential uncapped system on this franchise. Its not a good time to change course even though I believe one is needed.

Special teams killed the Packers today. You really dont have to go any further than that. The OL was bad and Rodgers was equally bad about holding on to the ball, but special teams made the difference.

Tampa Bay only scored only 10 of their 38 points by going more than 17 yards. The punt block and the long kickoff return were the difference makers. The Packers had seemingly taken control of the game in both situations only to let Tampa back in the game. Certainly I give them credit for being opportunistic, but it shouldve never came to that.

The whole pass protection issue is baffling to me. It's really hard to comprehend that a professional football team could be that bad on the OL. Teams are getting easy pressure with only 4 guys. To top it off we have a QB that has very little sense of when and where the rush is coming from and when to get rid of the ball. It really is a double whammy. In interviews I've seen with Rodgers, he refuses to acknowledge that he's holding on to the ball too long. I can only hope he can start to see it and improve in this area. It's really the only thing that's keeping him from being a complete player.

Someone will get fired and soon. I don't know if Slocum is the guy but it appears obvious to me that Campen should be. Slocum can only deal with what is given to him. TT decisions and injuries have weakened our special teams. There is no way Underwood should be out there at all. That guy may develop into something but right now he looks like a HS player, and a bad one at that.
How Campen can continue in GB is beyond me? Does he have a picture or video of TT or MM? This OL is hideous and is not getting any better. Granted, MM isn't helping matters with his ridiculous play calls. Does he think every NFL defense will allow a QB to sit in the pocket for 5-7 seconds? I knew we were going to play awful today, I even told my wife pregame that I thought there was a chance we would lose. I guess part of me knew we have played subpar in Tampa for years now, but mostly I'm simply not very positive about our team. The game plan every Sunday completely sucks, both offensively and defensively. The players are average at best but get continual praise and very little criticism. I'm so tired of watching the same mistake being made over and over and over again.
On the bright side, I have saved quite a bit of money this season staying home and watching games rather than going to my local Packer Bar.
Fire someone this week!

Some players are leaders, some are not. Just because you have 3-4+ years in the league does not mean you have leadership skills. There is no identity on this team. Hard to figure. Is it talent of coaching, I tend to think its talent since this is the same staff who won 23 of 26 at one point but I regress The more I watch this team the more think one of 2 things, 13-3 was a fluke or #4 helped hide some of the flaws both from a talent level and coaching/adjustments. I tend to think #4 had more to do with this than many are prepared to admit. Look at Minny. Is Childress that much better as a coach from 2008 to 2009? Why has Sid Rice made such strides? Yes the brilliance of Childress and Bevel for sure is evident.

I have made of for TJ's loss of revenue in your absence

Unfortunately, we're not allowed to factor #4 into the equation or for some reason we get labled a traitor, Favre lover etc, instead of legitimately discussing a possible factor in what you so aptly described. I do believe #4 did help hide some of the defects too, but again, that argument will fall on deaf ears.

That is what I have been on for the past year. The team is very average talent wise. the NFL is about impact players and players who can put a team on their back and win a game. This team has 2 players that Thompson drafted who I consider special, Rodgers and Jennings. And that is in 5 years. And it shows up on special teams.

Ultimately, winning will turn into enough money to make up the losses, anyways. But it's a moot point. I really don't feel like changes will be made.

Actually, I think the main reason the 2007 year was so good was that it was the only year in the past 5 years where the special teams was any good. When you are not losing the field position battle, your defense will look better because of it. Simply put, the defense that was so good in the 2007 season might not have been all to much better, talent wise, than the two years previous. The chance of scoring definitely goes down the farther back you start, field wise. Likewise the odds of holding a team to 3 when they only have 20 yards to go isn't likely to happen against good teams.

We're in a repeat of last year, now. Packers are losing the field position battle, except instead of bad punting giving the other team good field position, were letting them return it for long distances, instead.

You may be right. Here is my thoery after this last debacle that has only become clearer to Murphy since this last loss. No way he would entertain getting rid of either before this, but now, he has to think this way because of the unrest caused by losing to Favre twice and the worst team in the league:

finish season at 4-12 or 5-11 - both will be fired. I mean with the expectations coming in, this is the only logical result.
finish season at 6-10 or even 7-9, one gets fired, and I wouldn't be so sure that the one would be McCarthy. He is trying to cook with the garbage that TT has provided. Sure he would be lame duck, but TT's salary eaten would be less, and would buy the team another year of rebuilding with the same coach. Could be just an extra year for Mc under a new GM.
finish season at 8-8 or higher, regardless of playoff berth or not, both stay one more year.

I see 6 wins or fewer myself. It's going to be interesting in that scenario.

One caveat to this whole thing. Just what if TT is doing exactly as the board or EC has directed and is saving money because of the impending labor strife? That is a possibility tht can not be dismissed. If that is the case, God help us all because it's going to be like going back to the 70's and 80's for us!