Ernie Accorsi as GM and Mike Holmgren or Mike Shannon as HC. Enough said this team is going backwards not fowards. I supported TT and MM but after today that's gone just like they should be.

Another pathetic showing by an O-line that has been 5 years in the making.

I agree with you about losing MM and TT. I was also a supporter, but your either getting worse, or getting better. This team is getting worse, and there should be changes.

I'd be a big fan of giving either Cowher or Holmgren the keys. We need a good solid respected coach.

This game is embarrassing. Where it leads us, I don't know.... But I'm leaning on getting rid of MM.

That was as bad as it gets. Must have game against an 0-7 squad.

So if a change is made, when do you do it?

Will Murphy have the stones to do anything?

Hard to stomach this stuff. I can take bad football if I know positive changes are going to be made- but with Harlan gone, do you trust the leadership to make the right moves? I doubt Holmgren would ever be back.

I was going to give MM the rest of the season to turn things around, but this was an embarassment. He clearly is not a leader. I don't think his players respect him, and the assistants he has chosen are just god awful. I still think the talent is there, But it seriously looks like every one of the players gets worse every week. I actually found myself hoping the Bucc's would win today, thinking that would help to get this coaching staff out of here. Right now, I just feel that if Mac isn't canned by the day after the season ends, then TT should be.

I would be in favor of a total housecleaning to get Holmgren back here in any capacity.

If we bring holmgren back its going to be the same team he had when he coached lol with all the guys we brought back

Well... with one notable exception!

ditto Rman . Simply embarrising and unacceptable. The board and Murphy need to know we will not tolerate this.

I for one am sickened by the performance the last two weeks. I have harped for the last five years about building an OL, knowing the day would come when Clifton and Tauscher would be classified as useless. That day has come. It was one thing to lose Wahle and the other Rivera, now we have nothing on the OL. Who do I blame for this? First of all, our OL sucks. My 13 yr. old who weighs 180 lbs. can block better that Scott Wells has blocked the last two weeks. Need I remind you of Wells whiff block last week that got Rodgers killed. Who goes first? Our OL coach needs to be gone, now. Secondly, who was the Einsten that let Merideth go on the practice squad and now he is the starting tackle for Buffalo? Whoever made that decision needs to go! Not picking on Wells as the rest of the line has done zero. Ultimately, TT has to be accountable here. He knew he had problems.

Now for our defense. Why hasn't Raji been playing round the clock since week 1. Oh, he had a ankle injury. Get his big rear end on the field! We ain't paying him 13 mil to sit on his rear end and eat bon bons! Jeb Bush couldn't cover TO owens with two broken legs. Why in God's name is he even on this roster?

You can fire the special teams coach tomorrow. What a sad state of affairs!
You can fire McCarthy for not controlling this team, it's penalties and it's kills on our QB.

For some of you youngsters out there, you might not remember Lynn Dickey. Lynn Dickey was and is one of the best QB's the Packers ever had. Unfortunately he broke his leg on numerous occasions prior to joining the Packers. Mainly because he played on a team with a terrible OL. I see alot of the same qualities in Rodgers that Dickey had and unfortunately, I see the same thing happening to Rodgers. Mark my word, Rodgers will not make it through this season without a serious significant injury. You can thank McCarthy and TT for that! They have failed miserably in trying to build this team. It's been one draft bust after another. Which leads me to the scouting group. They need some wholesale changes there, starting with Dorsey! Time to go!

I AM TRULY SICKENED BY THE LAST TWO WEEKS!

It's a frustrating year for all of us Packer Fans. This game was lost by Offense - Defense - Special Teams. After this game I really don't see any bright spots. For I think we have some talent, but lack good coaching and drive. Mark Murphy really needs to think about both TT and MM.

Where to start? O-Line / D-Line / Running Back

Solutions?
1. Fire TT - Hire Mike Holmgren as GM
2. Fire MM - Hire Bill Cowher as Coach

Draft?
1. O-Line? D-Line? Running Back? Linebackers? Corners? Safeties?
We have a ton of holes.

Let's look at TT Past picks:

SEATTLE (During Thompson's five seasons in Seattle, the Seahawks advanced to the playoffs twice.)
Running back Shaun Alexander
kicker Josh Brown
guard Steve Hutchinson
wide receiver Darrell Jackson
cornerbacks Marcus Trufant / Ken Lucas,
safeties Ken Hamlin / Michael Boulware

Thompson did make some questionable first day draft picks in Seattle, however, including first round pick Chris McIntosh in 2000, second round pick Ike Charlton in 2000, first round pick Koren Robinson in 2001, second round pick Anton Palepoi in 2002, third round pick Kris Richard in 2002, and first round pick Marcus Tubbs in 2004. In 2005, following Thompson's departure to the Packers, the Seahawks had their best success in team history, reaching the Super Bowl.

GREEN BAY

2005
Thompson replaced Mike Sherman as general manager of the Packers in 2005. When Thompson was hired the Packers were over the salary cap for the upcoming 2005 season. Some of Thompson's first decisions included declining to resign starting guard Marco Rivera and releasing starting guard Mike Wahle and starting safety Darren Sharper, three key components of the team's three-time NFC North division championship team. Thompson's first draft netted a quarterback in first round pick Aaron Rodgers, as well as defensive starters in safety Nick Collins and linebacker Brady Poppinga. The drafting of Rodgers was especially notable in that he had been expected to be selected much earlier in the draft but wound up falling to the late first round. In free agency following the draft, Thompson signed low-priced players, picking up guards Matt O'Dwyer and Adrian Klemm to make up for the losses of Wahle and Rivera. However, O'Dwyer was cut during training camp, and Klemm was benched towards the end of the season. Thompson acquired several free agents during the season that proved more successful, including running back Samkon Gado, tight end Donald Lee and wide receiver Rod Gardner. Still, the team struggled to overcome injuries at numerous offensive skill positions, most notably season-ending injuries to #1 running back Ahman Green, #2 RB Najeh Davenport and #1 wide receiver Javon Walker, and Green Bay finished the season with a 4-12 record, the worst record for the franchise since 1991.

2006
Thompson's first action during the 2006 offseason was the firing of head coach Mike Sherman. Sherman was replaced on January 12, 2006 by Mike McCarthy, who came to the Packers after previously serving in the role of offensive coordinator for both the San Francisco 49ers and New Orleans Saints. McCarthy also served as quarterback coach for the Packers in 1999, giving him hands-on experience with franchise quarterback Brett Favre and some familiarity with Thompson. The hiring was considered a surprise to many in NFL circles, as McCarthy was not considered a prime head coaching candidate despite the number of head coaching vacancies.

In terms of talent acquisition, the 2006 offseason was a modestly impressive one for Thompson and the Packers. The Packers entered the offseason with a league best $32 million available under the salary cap. However, Thompson elected not to retain several veterans including kicker Ryan Longwell, center Mike Flanagan, or linebacker Na'il Diggs. Thompson retained several other veterans, as the team resigned Pro Bowl defensive end Aaron Kampman, running back Ahman Green, guard Kevin Barry and fullback William Henderson to new contracts. Thompson also was more active in free agency than he was in 2005, focusing mostly on defense by signing safety Marquand Manuel from the Seattle Seahawks, defensive tackle Ryan Pickett from the St. Louis Rams, linebacker Ben Taylor from the Cleveland Browns, and defensive back Charles Woodson from the Oakland Raiders.

In the 2006 NFL Draft, Thompson amassed 12 picks and continued his restructuring on the defensive side of the football. With the fifth overall pick in the draft, Thompson selected linebacker A.J. Hawk from Ohio State. Thompson later added another Big Ten linebacker, Abdul Hodge from Iowa. Thompson also nabbed eventual starter Johnny Jolly with a 6th round pick. Thompson also addressed offensive deficiencies during the draft by nabbing wide receiver Greg Jennings, guard Jason Spitz and guard Daryn Colledge. Several of these draft picks have contributed almost immediately to the Packers' lineup. Jennings, Colledge, Spitz, and Hawk started the entire year and a 5th round pick, Tony Moll, started 10 games in his rookie season while other offensive linemen were out with injuries. Jennings, Hawk, and Colledge were also selected to NFL's official all-rookie team.

2007
The 2007 season was a successful one for Thompson and the Packers. With a league-best $21 million available below the salary cap, the Packers' lone free agent signing in the offseason was former NY Giants cornerback Frank Walker. There were rumors indicating that the team was interested in trading for Oakland Raiders wide receiver Randy Moss, but Moss was instead dealt to the New England Patriots. Most notably, in September Thompson traded a 6th round pick in the 2008 NFL Draft for New York Giants' running back Ryan Grant, who was starting by game eight and went on to have an outstanding season.

In the 2007 NFL Draft, Thompson selected University of Tennessee defensive tackle Justin Harrell with the #16 overall selection in the first round (they received this pick from another team). This move was a surprise selection to many fans because Harrell was not a widely known player, had a long history of injury, and many felt the team had more pressing needs. In addition, more widely-acclaimed players such as Notre Dame quarterback Brady Quinn were still available at that selection. Fans and draft prognosticators also widely panned Thompson's selection of James Jones in the third round. Despite heavy criticism, Jones, and several of Thompson's other 2007 draft picks, played significant roles for the Packers during the 2007 season. Although Harrell was recovering from a college biceps injury, he played in the Packers final five games. James Jones served as the Packers' third receiver and finished third among rookies in receiving (47 receptions for 676 yards). Other notable members of the Packers' 2007 draft class include running backs Brandon Jackson and DeShawn Wynn, who were early season starters for the Packers, Korey Hall, who served as the team's starting fullback, safety Aaron Rouse, who tallied two interceptions while filling in for injured players, and kicker Mason Crosby, who led the NFL in scoring in 2007.

Despite the offseason criticism preceding the 2007 season, Thompson and the Packers were the surprise team of the NFL through the 2007 season, as they finished the regular season with a 13–3 record. The Packers made it to the NFC Championship game, losing to eventual Super Bowl champions the New York Giants, 23-20 in overtime.
Thompson was voted Sporting News NFL Executive of the Year for his 2007 work on March 25, 2008.

2008
The 2008 off-season and training camp was a rather rocky one for Thompson. While free agency was quiet, with the team's lone signing being linebacker Brandon Chillar, Thompson was at the center of a controversy surrounding quarterback Brett Favre's desire to play during the 2008 season. Thompson, along with Packers' management and head coach Mike McCarthy, were adamant about their desire to move on with Aaron Rodgers as the team's new starting quarterback. Favre, meanwhile, expressed frustration with Thompson regarding hiring and personnel decisions. As a result, on July 11, 2008, Favre asked for his unconditional release from the Green Bay Packers. Thompson had repeatedly stated that the team will not release him and at the time were engaged in a standoff with Favre that could have ended with Favre taking up to a $25 million buyout to remain retired and participate in a marketing and merchandising role with the team.

On August 6, 2008, Thompson and Favre agreed on a trade and he was sent to the New York Jets for a conditional 4th round pick. The pick was to become a third-round pick if Favre took the majority of the team's snaps at quarterback, a second-round pick if he took 70 percent of the snaps and the team made the playoffs, and a first-round pick if Favre took 80 percent of the snaps at quarterback and the Jets reached Super Bowl XLIII. The Jets failed to make the playoffs but Favre took the majority of the teams snaps; so the 4th round pick became a 3rd round pick. Favre made the AFC Pro Bowl and led the Jets to a 9-7 record, while the Packers fell to 6-10 including losing 5 of their last 6 games of the season.

Besides the obvious controversy concerning the Brett Favre unretirement and trade, Thompson was considerably criticized by his decision in the 2008 offseason to waive punter Jon Ryan. After an excellent season, Thompson chose to waive the punter. The punter was quickly picked up by Seattle and had another impressive season while the Packers filtered though punters Derrick Frost and Jeremy Kapinos. Ultimately the loss of a good punter contributed to several momentum shifts during games due to poor punts aiding the Packers in achieving a 6-10 season.

2009
So far in the 2009 offseason, Ted Thompson has continued to uphold his philosophy to build through the draft. The 1st pick by the Packers (9th overall) was B.J. Raji, a defensive nose tackle who is expected to immediately contribute. Ted Thompson, contrary to previous drafts where he was prone to trade down, traded up to obtain linebacker Clay Matthews with the 26th pick in the draft. Thompson also made some resignings in the offseason with Jarrett Bush, Tramon Williams, Michael Montgomery, Atari Bigby, and John Kuhn to name a few. Besides that there have been few moves by the Packers organization.

Enough said?

Slash the line all you want, most quarterbacks in the nfl have three seconds to get rid of the ball. Aaron sits back there for 5-7 every darn play. Push your computer chair back, stand up, and try to move around like you were blocking someone for 7 seconds. It's physically impossible unless all 5 linemen get a pancake!

Rogers needs to get rid of the ball quicker. However, the team once again gave up on the run? What's up with that? I know Grant isn't the best back, but he was running pretty hard today.

Once again, I blame the lost on Coaching. Then everyone else can get in line.

I don't want Holmgren as GM it is proven he is not a good GM but a very very good HC. Also Cowher is going to end up in Car next year.

OK, time to take a deep breath and get a grip. Let look at your post, point by point:

1. The OL sucks. Well, not totally. Sitton (RG) has been unusually reliable as a rookie. Barbre (RT) had a very rough start, but was (relatively speaking) doing OK in his first year as a starter. Lang (LT) was decent, starting as a rookie.
Colledge (LG) was doing fine until he was switched to LT for a while- he then seemed to lose his confidence. Spitz, who should be playing center, is out for the year with a back injury (something I am very familiar with, and makes me very nervous and uncertain about his future).

1A. The Packers let Meredith go to the Bills. Big deal. The Bills OL is considered by many to be the worst in the league. I don't believe the retention of Meredith would make any difference.

2. You would force an injured player (Raji) to play? How interesting. Perhaps, then, Stafford should have continued to play because of the amount of money Detroit gave to him, despite his injury. Sorry, you "logic" eludes me on this point. And why the frustrated flings at Raji (eating bon bons) and Bush (couldn't cover TO with two broken legs). You have lost me at this point. Perhaps you shoud rail at Mark Sanchez eating a hot dog during a game.

3. As far as firing coaches, it is never a good idea to do that during a season, even if the stink out loud. Certainly, the ST coaching situation should be addressed in the offseason- as should much of the offensive coaches (in both senses of the word). But fire MM now? And replace him with- who? Realistically? Really realistically?

I am hardly a youngster, and I remember that Dickey broke his game in the last play of the last game of the Packers one season, and was then out for the next season, and tentatively returned after a year off. I was not aware that he had previously broken his leg. Are these facts, or speculation based on disgust with the Packers play so far this season?

This is not a challenge- I am simply looking at your post, and responding to what I read. This is not personal, since I don't believe I know you. It is simply an analysis of what I consider a post written under distress and uhappiness. I am also distressed and unhappy. However, I believe your approach- fire some coaches now, force injured players onto the field, and get rid of the entire OL, is rather overstated. Time to step back, take a deep breath, and take a long, hard look at this team. Then during the off season, make some changes and additions.

Use a scalpel, not a machete, to do some touch up work.

Holmgren would make a great GM. He just doesn't make a great GM & head coach. Let him focus on just a GM position and not coaching. He'll be as good as Wolf, mark my words.

My goodness ozlow, I thought I ran off at the keyboard! LOL. OK, I'll just comment on your first "solution": hire Holmgren as GM and Cowher as HC.

First, Holmgren had the GM job stripped from him in Seattle. What makes you think he would be any better in GB?

Second, why would Cowher come to GB? His wife has made it very clear that she wants to live in South Carolina. Do you really believe that Cowher would go against the wishes of his significant other to go to GB?

Besides, both guys have large contracts that can't be voided by the team. Neither one is going anywhere very soon.

Even though I do agree, MM needs to go if this year is the disaster it is shaping up to be.

TT needs to get busy in middle ground FA OR ELSE!

Enough is enough. As the cartoon showing two vultures sitting on a telephone wire in the middle of a desert put it, as one vulture was saying to the other, "Patience my ass! I'm going to kill something!"

I'll keep my thoughts quick and simple. I don't think that either Ted Thompson or Mike McCarthy will be able to take this team to and win a Super Bowl i(but I think that Ted Thompson is far more likely not get fired this year). Right now, Mark Murphy has to make a tough decision that will determine what his legacy will be in Green Bay. I want Bill Cowher as the Head Coach in 2010. There's no guarantee that the job in Carolina will end up being available and I'd like to think the Packers could make a competitive offer to get him back to the Sidelines. I think that he is a guy who would very quickly turn this team (which does have a lot of talent on it) into a legitimate contender. There aren't many opportunities to get a guy like him and I really hope they don't pass this one up. I think that it's' time to make a big change and even if Ted Thompson sticks around, he needs to really make some significant moves this offseason if he wants to finish out his contract.

I agree that Mike Holmgren is a better personnel man than his experience in Seattle. I wouldn't want him doing both jobs, but I think that he'll end up being an excellent GM. I could see a scenario where Holmgren ends up being a GM and hires a guy like Jon Gruden as his head coach. I think that's a front office that could work pretty well.

Honestly, MM should be fired after this game, but like you said not a good idea during the season.

Off Season Firing:

Ted Tompson & MM
Followed by Winston Moss - James Campen/Jerry Fontenot - Joe Philbin & John Rushing.

Caper stays / Kevin Greene Stays

Special Teams... Shawn Slocum and Curtis Fuller - GONE!

My Grandma could coach the offense better than MM. At least she has character and would paddle the asses of all the players who step out of line. I know she paddle my ass when I stepped out of line.

Ricky...
I'm a strong believer that you can't be good at both positions. If Holmgren can just focus on GM then I honestly think he'd be very.... very... good. The guy does have a eye for talent and is a thinker. As far as Cowher... Show him the money and he'll come. His wife can go wherever she wants. In most cases money will talk. Time to wine and dine Miss Cowher, treat her to the finest... A krolls burger and cheese curds should do the trick. LOL

I agree something needs to happen and happen quick.

As fans, we all want remedies to this situation and not explanations or excuses for the continued failures. I'm all for sacking TT and MM; get real leadership in Green Bay and restore pride to Lambeau.

HONESTLY, Can we demote Mike McCarthy to Offensive Coordinator or QB Coach (I think he has handled ARod great).

I agree with firing MM and I think that it is only temporary. If we still have Ted Thompson throwing rookies into the lineup, what coach can fix that?

I feel as if on any given Sunday, the Packers can beat any team in the league or lose to any team in the league. For better and for worse, you can't say that about many other teams, but it obvioulsy leaves a lot to be desired as for consistency

Thompson stays and gets another shot at a HC. I would like to see Russ Grimm brought in.

I agree that Russ Grim is a good choice, but I really like everything I have heard about Leslie Frazier from MN. I have been high on him for a couple of years.

The Packers proved the latter today. Where's the proof for the former?

THANX MM & TT!!!! NEXT....

X 2. Thanks for nothing. This the most historic and proud franchise in the history of he NFL. Please resign TT.

Lets see Rodgers holds the ball to long, has little to no pocket presence, and refuses to throw any passes under 30 yards. Yeah MM is doing a great job with him

In the defense of Holmgren, he did not do well at double duty- perhaps if he only was a GM, it would be different.

If they get a new coach I do not care who it is as long as there is some passion there.

Usually it is not a good move to replace a coach mid season. However, usually there are no coaches available which there are right now. Another thing, one of the smartest things Bob Harlan did was fire Tom Braatz in early November, hired Wolf and let him observe to get a head start on the next season, After today I believe we are now in the 2010 pre season, and Murphy needs to do whatever is necessary.

If TT were on the ball which he is not, he would fire McCarthy and hire someone else, not name an interim. This would save his job for 2-3 years. He is too nutless to do this. If he really wanted to deliver the ultimate FY, he would hire Marriuchi-- that would really piss Favre off.

Wow

I am hoping the Packers lose out. Which is no stretch. Terrible to say. If this is what it takes to get rid of the Odd Squad so be it.

Last week I said I would wait until the end of season and reserve my judgment.

After today, wow.

I would have to say I wouldn't mind seeing McCarthy being fired. As I've seen posted before, McCarthy and Thompson are both under contract for a few more years. Firing both of them would make little financial sense. So if you had to cut one, I'd have to go with McCarthy.

The things that bugged me about him have been his decision making, but it seems he's lost control of his own team. I think it's time to get a new captain.

If it could happen hiring Bill Cowher as HC would be nice. Somehow I don't think Cowher and Ted would get along, Ted is to set on his ideas on building a team.

Also where ever Cowher goes not only will he want to be paid very well he will most likely want to have control of the team. Like in NE where Bilacheat is not the GM but we all know who runs the team.

Why in hell would Ted still be there?

I think people could forget about Cowher or Holmgren or for that matter Shanahan. I don't think it will happen. I think TT will remain and the HC will be the only change. For better or for worse, TT's rope is a bit longer than MMs.

This is the absolutely worst sentiment I'm finding being expressed on the internet - WORST.
I'm not trying to cause a split amongst Packer fans and some sort of foolish & wasteful internal arguement (its already going on, but I'm not here to foster it) but too many "Packer" fans are happy we lost and/or hope we continue to lose as they feel that will get rid of TT/MM.

A terrible mindset.

Wait a few weeks. We haven't hit rock bottom yet!

I don't understand those want to get rid of MM but keep Teddy Ruxpin around, is another draft class going to fix this team? He has hit on some good players in the draft but has failed miserably to build the trenches, which is the foundation of a good team.

What if a new coach is hired then another year or two down the road we still are having the same results? Then we finally get rid of TT, hire a new GM that wants his own coach, so we have yet another coaching change. IMO both TT and MM need to go after this season and do it all at once. Of course as others have pointed out the money both these guys are due will make it a difficult decision for the new Pres. and BOD.

I dont get it either phil.

Most people are complaining about money that Packers would eat if they fired both of them like its their money. The fact is that if Mark Murphy uses money as the sole reason to keep either of these clowns then he couldnt care less about winning.

Personally I would fire Ted today. Leave McCarthy in till the end of the season and if he doesnt get to at least 8 wins then can him also.

I agree completely.

I also would not really mind seeing Holmgren come back as a GM. Just because he faltered in Seattle (while holding down 2 full time jobs!!) does not mean he couldn't succeed here. I can't imagine he could be worse than the current regime.

I am not a fan of firing anybody during the season. I like to let the season play out, then make the necessary "adjustments" during the offseason. I think it send the wrong the message and causes undue distractions to the team.

Pick your team and leaders, go to battle, reload during the offseason.

See I think it sends the right message and that is everyone will be held accountable from the top down. I think thats something McCarthy hasnt made this team.

We are 4-4. Pretty much dead in the water in the North and the entire NFL. Is it really a distraction if Ted was fired today?

I agree normally but someone else brought up a good point earlier about how Wolf was brought in to "observe" in November before the year he officially took over as GM. If we can get that person, whoever it may be (Holmgren?), right now before another team gets him I say do it and say goodbye to Teddy. Then the new GM can get a chance to really see what he is working with before the off season.

Thats actually a really good point. I would be all in favor of doing that!



I never really put much stock into McCarthy as I never bought into the fact that he wasgoing to be a good head coach. I think he is doing the best he can but he lacks the talent on the playing field and he just can't squeeze anything out of sub par talent the way other coaches can.

If Ted was canned today, I wouldn't really be upset. Change is needed and the sooner the better. I would just rather have the team do it at the end of the year or do what Philh64 suggested.

On the bright side, if there is an overhaul I think it would be a tremendous opportunity for a new GM & HC. IMO, there is a lot of talent on this team and a ton of potential. There are no bad contracts and the biggest headache for a GM or HC (Favre's retirement) has already been dealt with. The cupboard is not bare.

However, IMO these are decisions that are made at the end of the year and while I am very disappointed by yesterdays embarrassing loss, I will watch & root for a victory next week. I hope they can pull it out but if it's 8-8 or below and I think they should go.

As far as Philh64 point about giving a new GM an early start, if the wheels fall off and the Pack is out of the play-off race with a few weeks to - then I would say yes. As long as they are in the race, I think you give these guys a shot to fix it.

To be fair Blue brought this up before me I just was agreeing with his point. I think that if this team doesnt have a reasonable shot at the playoffs by the end of November that would be the perfect time to pull the trigger on a new GM.

Sorry, I didn't read far enough back. Anyway, I agree on the basic point - if they are knocked out early, everyone is fair game.