Monday Morning Ruminations
The New v. The Old
For this match up, most of us expected Favre to be jumpy and nervous and slinging balls into inadvisable locations. It didn't work out that way. Instead, it was our own field general that looked like he had the butterflies. Rodgers came out looking like a mess. He was overthrowing receivers, throwing into double coverage, holding the ball too long - just generally looking like a deer in the headlights. I'm sure I wasn't the only one sitting there thinking to myself "Boy, this looks kind of familiar - that guy that used to play here for a while was known to do this in big games." It's a fitting irony that ol' number 4 was over there on the other side, looking cool as a cucumber and dissecting our defense in a way that would make Mengele green with envy.
While Rodgers was clinging to the football like Charlie Brown did with his blanket, Favre was expertly taking what the defense gave him. He hit the receivers underneath and didn't really even come close to throwing a pick all day. There was a series or two where it seemed like he might be getting rattled by the Packers rarely-seen pressure, but that didn't last. Even when the Packers did get some meager penetration, Favre rarely held the ball long enough for anybody to get home. He looked like a guy with 17+ years of experience in the west coast offense.
Rodgers didn't. Apparently someone swapped Rodgers' playbook with an Air Coryell version from Madden. And it was glorious...ly awful. Some people guessed that the Packers would get too happy about Winfield being out and basically outsmart themselves. Kudos to those prognosticators. Half Time mercifully came before the Pack had completely bled out, and Rodgers came out much more crisp in the second half. The pass protection even got a bit better. He even had the occasional pocket to throw from - well, at least what passes for a pocket around these parts. Unofrtunately, the theme of the day was "Too little, too late." The Packers got punched in the mouth early, rallied back, and then got punched again.
The offense let the team down. I put a lot of it on Rodgers. He wants to go for the home run every play instead of building a consistent drive. You can't live off of a boom or bust offense. And that's where I come to McCarthy. He gives lipservice to being a consistent, grind it out team, but that's not the way he indoctrinates this team. He thrives off of an all-or-nothing team, and that's what he gets. Unfortunately, yesterday was the "nothing" side for most of the game.
It's time to draw the line...and quarter it.
In old England, to be hanged, drawn and quartered was the punishment for high treason. I think it's only fitting that the Packers bring this back, since the only thing I can assume is that Campen has gone Benedict Arnold on us and has convinced the offensive line to go into collusion with him. How else can you explain 14 sacks surrendered in only two games? In 2007, we only gave up 13 the entire year. I think we're over 30 now on the season. There was one play where two linebackers came in completely untouched and clobbered Rodgers. Kudos to you, Mr. Campen. It takes a devious mind to devise that kind of treachery.
Speaking of high treason, it's high time that Campen gets canned. The offensive line has gotten worse every year. Don't get me wrong - I'm not convinced the guys we've got on the line are Pro Bowl material. But right now, Campen's barely got them ready for the Tecmo Bowl, much less living up to the Super Bowl delusions...excuse me...aspirations that this team holds.
Fire him now. I don't think there's going to be some ensuing loss of continuity that will cripple the line. I mean, how can they do much worse? We could basically put 5 turnstiles in front of Rodgers and it would be about the same. Maybe opposing defenders would have trouble swiping their cards and it would give Rodgers another second or two.
D-fence
I'm not too upset with the defense. The offense and special teams put the defense into horrendous positions all game long. They hardly ever got a long field to defense...I think the Vikings average starting field position was at the 40 or 40. I do, however, have a bone to pick (pardon my French) with Mr. Capers. Is there any reason that we couldn't jam Rice at the line? Or all of the Vikings receivers for that matter? Favre was killing us with excellent precision and veteran timing. So, you know, how about we, uh, disrupt that timing? I really would have liked to see more hybridization.
Oh, and when Campen gets shown the door, can someone have him toss the 2-4-5 section of the playbook into the trash on his way out?
There seemed to be a few somewhat bright spots on this game. Matthews continues to look stellar. Which makes it all the more confounding that Kampman can't seem to do anything. Matthews is making an impact on the left side of the line, but Kampman can't do anything against the weaker right side? Barnett had some nice tackles and Bishop made some good plays, although he displayed the reason he hasn't gotten much playing time - he's a far cry from being assignment sure.
Special (Ed) Teams
Oye. What a disaster. Maybe I'm just not as visionary as the Packers players and coaching staff, but this tackling optional system doesn't seem to be a recipe for success. Also, could we just give mittens to all the guys on the return teams? Maybe that will stop them from holding.
These struggles on special teams are really perplexing. Every time a personnel decision is made, special teams seem to weigh heavily into the decision-making process. We cut Smith and brought in Martin for Special Teams. We kept Kuhn and Hall because of Special Teams. The 3-4 lets us carry more LBs, which helps with Special Teams. We're constantly trying to stock up on special teamers. And yet, our special teams gave up over 200 return yards yesterday. Despite two squib kicks! How does that happen?
Penalties Penalties Penalties
Say what you want, make whatever exuses you want. This is on McCarthy. This is a horrendously undiscplined, mentally-weak team. That starts with the coaching. Jolly's penalty was inexcusable. But after the game, he was all mea culpa, right? I mean, his idiotic, boneheaded inexcusable mistake directly led to at least 4 more points. He had to be sorry, right? Wrong. His post-game comment on that basically boiled down to "That's how I play. Deal with it." Say what you want about the players being responsible, but if a guy plays for a coach that demands discpline and self-control, he doesn't make that kind of comment. McCarthy has a dirty house and there's not a broom in sight.
The Long and Short of It
The Wild Card is still a live shot. Even if they lose to the Bears, Steelers, Ravens and Cowboys, the team still ends 9-7. That COULD be enough. Steal one, or even two, of those games, and the wild card is pretty much a lock. Right now, it's wide open - the Cowboys, Falcons, Giants, Eagles, Packers and Bears are all within a game of eachother and look to all be in the same neighborhood. It's a bunch of talented, inconsistent teams. Anything could happen.
I'm not calling for his firing, but I just don't see McCarthy still being here a couple years from now. He's just not a good head coach. He's one-dimensional and doesn't seem to have a grasp of the intangibles that make a team click. Campen, though, should be gone before the end of the season.
Full Version: Monday Morning Ruminations
QUOTE (sinatra @ Nov 2 2009, 09:41 PM) 
Monday Morning Ruminations
The New v. The Old
For this match up, most of us expected Favre to be jumpy and nervous and slinging balls into inadvisable locations. It didn't work out that way. Instead, it was our own field general that looked like he had the butterflies. Rodgers came out looking like a mess. He was overthrowing receivers, throwing into double coverage, holding the ball too long - just generally looking like a deer in the headlights. I'm sure I wasn't the only one sitting there thinking to myself "Boy, this looks kind of familiar - that guy that used to play here for a while was known to do this in big games." It's a fitting irony that ol' number 4 was over there on the other side, looking cool as a cucumber and dissecting our defense in a way that would make Mengele green with envy.
While Rodgers was clinging to the football like Charlie Brown did with his blanket, Favre was expertly taking what the defense gave him. He hit the receivers underneath and didn't really even come close to throwing a pick all day. There was a series or two where it seemed like he might be getting rattled by the Packers rarely-seen pressure, but that didn't last. Even when the Packers did get some meager penetration, Favre rarely held the ball long enough for anybody to get home. He looked like a guy with 17+ years of experience in the west coast offense.
Rodgers didn't. Apparently someone swapped Rodgers' playbook with an Air Coryell version from Madden. And it was glorious...ly awful. Some people guessed that the Packers would get too happy about Winfield being out and basically outsmart themselves. Kudos to those prognosticators. Half Time mercifully came before the Pack had completely bled out, and Rodgers came out much more crisp in the second half. The pass protection even got a bit better. He even had the occasional pocket to throw from - well, at least what passes for a pocket around these parts. Unofrtunately, the theme of the day was "Too little, too late." The Packers got punched in the mouth early, rallied back, and then got punched again.
The offense let the team down. I put a lot of it on Rodgers. He wants to go for the home run every play instead of building a consistent drive. You can't live off of a boom or bust offense. And that's where I come to McCarthy. He gives lipservice to being a consistent, grind it out team, but that's not the way he indoctrinates this team. He thrives off of an all-or-nothing team, and that's what he gets. Unfortunately, yesterday was the "nothing" side for most of the game.
It's time to draw the line...and quarter it.
In old England, to be hanged, drawn and quartered was the punishment for high treason. I think it's only fitting that the Packers bring this back, since the only thing I can assume is that Campen has gone Benedict Arnold on us and has convinced the offensive line to go into collusion with him. How else can you explain 14 sacks surrendered in only two games? In 2007, we only gave up 13 the entire year. I think we're over 30 now on the season. There was one play where two linebackers came in completely untouched and clobbered Rodgers. Kudos to you, Mr. Campen. It takes a devious mind to devise that kind of treachery.
Speaking of high treason, it's high time that Campen gets canned. The offensive line has gotten worse every year. Don't get me wrong - I'm not convinced the guys we've got on the line are Pro Bowl material. But right now, Campen's barely got them ready for the Tecmo Bowl, much less living up to the Super Bowl delusions...excuse me...aspirations that this team holds.
Fire him now. I don't think there's going to be some ensuing loss of continuity that will cripple the line. I mean, how can they do much worse? We could basically put 5 turnstiles in front of Rodgers and it would be about the same. Maybe opposing defenders would have trouble swiping their cards and it would give Rodgers another second or two.
D-fence
I'm not too upset with the defense. The offense and special teams put the defense into horrendous positions all game long. They hardly ever got a long field to defense...I think the Vikings average starting field position was at the 40 or 40. I do, however, have a bone to pick (pardon my French) with Mr. Capers. Is there any reason that we couldn't jam Rice at the line? Or all of the Vikings receivers for that matter? Favre was killing us with excellent precision and veteran timing. So, you know, how about we, uh, disrupt that timing? I really would have liked to see more hybridization.
Oh, and when Campen gets shown the door, can someone have him toss the 2-4-5 section of the playbook into the trash on his way out?
There seemed to be a few somewhat bright spots on this game. Matthews continues to look stellar. Which makes it all the more confounding that Kampman can't seem to do anything. Matthews is making an impact on the left side of the line, but Kampman can't do anything against the weaker right side? Barnett had some nice tackles and Bishop made some good plays, although he displayed the reason he hasn't gotten much playing time - he's a far cry from being assignment sure.
Special (Ed) Teams
Oye. What a disaster. Maybe I'm just not as visionary as the Packers players and coaching staff, but this tackling optional system doesn't seem to be a recipe for success. Also, could we just give mittens to all the guys on the return teams? Maybe that will stop them from holding.
These struggles on special teams are really perplexing. Every time a personnel decision is made, special teams seem to weigh heavily into the decision-making process. We cut Smith and brought in Martin for Special Teams. We kept Kuhn and Hall because of Special Teams. The 3-4 lets us carry more LBs, which helps with Special Teams. We're constantly trying to stock up on special teamers. And yet, our special teams gave up over 200 return yards yesterday. Despite two squib kicks! How does that happen?
Penalties Penalties Penalties
Say what you want, make whatever exuses you want. This is on McCarthy. This is a horrendously undiscplined, mentally-weak team. That starts with the coaching. Jolly's penalty was inexcusable. But after the game, he was all mea culpa, right? I mean, his idiotic, boneheaded inexcusable mistake directly led to at least 4 more points. He had to be sorry, right? Wrong. His post-game comment on that basically boiled down to "That's how I play. Deal with it." Say what you want about the players being responsible, but if a guy plays for a coach that demands discpline and self-control, he doesn't make that kind of comment. McCarthy has a dirty house and there's not a broom in sight.
The Long and Short of It
The Wild Card is still a live shot. Even if they lose to the Bears, Steelers, Ravens and Cowboys, the team still ends 9-7. That COULD be enough. Steal one, or even two, of those games, and the wild card is pretty much a lock. Right now, it's wide open - the Cowboys, Falcons, Giants, Eagles, Packers and Bears are all within a game of eachother and look to all be in the same neighborhood. It's a bunch of talented, inconsistent teams. Anything could happen.
I'm not calling for his firing, but I just don't see McCarthy still being here a couple years from now. He's just not a good head coach. He's one-dimensional and doesn't seem to have a grasp of the intangibles that make a team click. Campen, though, should be gone before the end of the season.
The New v. The Old
For this match up, most of us expected Favre to be jumpy and nervous and slinging balls into inadvisable locations. It didn't work out that way. Instead, it was our own field general that looked like he had the butterflies. Rodgers came out looking like a mess. He was overthrowing receivers, throwing into double coverage, holding the ball too long - just generally looking like a deer in the headlights. I'm sure I wasn't the only one sitting there thinking to myself "Boy, this looks kind of familiar - that guy that used to play here for a while was known to do this in big games." It's a fitting irony that ol' number 4 was over there on the other side, looking cool as a cucumber and dissecting our defense in a way that would make Mengele green with envy.
While Rodgers was clinging to the football like Charlie Brown did with his blanket, Favre was expertly taking what the defense gave him. He hit the receivers underneath and didn't really even come close to throwing a pick all day. There was a series or two where it seemed like he might be getting rattled by the Packers rarely-seen pressure, but that didn't last. Even when the Packers did get some meager penetration, Favre rarely held the ball long enough for anybody to get home. He looked like a guy with 17+ years of experience in the west coast offense.
Rodgers didn't. Apparently someone swapped Rodgers' playbook with an Air Coryell version from Madden. And it was glorious...ly awful. Some people guessed that the Packers would get too happy about Winfield being out and basically outsmart themselves. Kudos to those prognosticators. Half Time mercifully came before the Pack had completely bled out, and Rodgers came out much more crisp in the second half. The pass protection even got a bit better. He even had the occasional pocket to throw from - well, at least what passes for a pocket around these parts. Unofrtunately, the theme of the day was "Too little, too late." The Packers got punched in the mouth early, rallied back, and then got punched again.
The offense let the team down. I put a lot of it on Rodgers. He wants to go for the home run every play instead of building a consistent drive. You can't live off of a boom or bust offense. And that's where I come to McCarthy. He gives lipservice to being a consistent, grind it out team, but that's not the way he indoctrinates this team. He thrives off of an all-or-nothing team, and that's what he gets. Unfortunately, yesterday was the "nothing" side for most of the game.
It's time to draw the line...and quarter it.
In old England, to be hanged, drawn and quartered was the punishment for high treason. I think it's only fitting that the Packers bring this back, since the only thing I can assume is that Campen has gone Benedict Arnold on us and has convinced the offensive line to go into collusion with him. How else can you explain 14 sacks surrendered in only two games? In 2007, we only gave up 13 the entire year. I think we're over 30 now on the season. There was one play where two linebackers came in completely untouched and clobbered Rodgers. Kudos to you, Mr. Campen. It takes a devious mind to devise that kind of treachery.
Speaking of high treason, it's high time that Campen gets canned. The offensive line has gotten worse every year. Don't get me wrong - I'm not convinced the guys we've got on the line are Pro Bowl material. But right now, Campen's barely got them ready for the Tecmo Bowl, much less living up to the Super Bowl delusions...excuse me...aspirations that this team holds.
Fire him now. I don't think there's going to be some ensuing loss of continuity that will cripple the line. I mean, how can they do much worse? We could basically put 5 turnstiles in front of Rodgers and it would be about the same. Maybe opposing defenders would have trouble swiping their cards and it would give Rodgers another second or two.
D-fence
I'm not too upset with the defense. The offense and special teams put the defense into horrendous positions all game long. They hardly ever got a long field to defense...I think the Vikings average starting field position was at the 40 or 40. I do, however, have a bone to pick (pardon my French) with Mr. Capers. Is there any reason that we couldn't jam Rice at the line? Or all of the Vikings receivers for that matter? Favre was killing us with excellent precision and veteran timing. So, you know, how about we, uh, disrupt that timing? I really would have liked to see more hybridization.
Oh, and when Campen gets shown the door, can someone have him toss the 2-4-5 section of the playbook into the trash on his way out?
There seemed to be a few somewhat bright spots on this game. Matthews continues to look stellar. Which makes it all the more confounding that Kampman can't seem to do anything. Matthews is making an impact on the left side of the line, but Kampman can't do anything against the weaker right side? Barnett had some nice tackles and Bishop made some good plays, although he displayed the reason he hasn't gotten much playing time - he's a far cry from being assignment sure.
Special (Ed) Teams
Oye. What a disaster. Maybe I'm just not as visionary as the Packers players and coaching staff, but this tackling optional system doesn't seem to be a recipe for success. Also, could we just give mittens to all the guys on the return teams? Maybe that will stop them from holding.
These struggles on special teams are really perplexing. Every time a personnel decision is made, special teams seem to weigh heavily into the decision-making process. We cut Smith and brought in Martin for Special Teams. We kept Kuhn and Hall because of Special Teams. The 3-4 lets us carry more LBs, which helps with Special Teams. We're constantly trying to stock up on special teamers. And yet, our special teams gave up over 200 return yards yesterday. Despite two squib kicks! How does that happen?
Penalties Penalties Penalties
Say what you want, make whatever exuses you want. This is on McCarthy. This is a horrendously undiscplined, mentally-weak team. That starts with the coaching. Jolly's penalty was inexcusable. But after the game, he was all mea culpa, right? I mean, his idiotic, boneheaded inexcusable mistake directly led to at least 4 more points. He had to be sorry, right? Wrong. His post-game comment on that basically boiled down to "That's how I play. Deal with it." Say what you want about the players being responsible, but if a guy plays for a coach that demands discpline and self-control, he doesn't make that kind of comment. McCarthy has a dirty house and there's not a broom in sight.
The Long and Short of It
The Wild Card is still a live shot. Even if they lose to the Bears, Steelers, Ravens and Cowboys, the team still ends 9-7. That COULD be enough. Steal one, or even two, of those games, and the wild card is pretty much a lock. Right now, it's wide open - the Cowboys, Falcons, Giants, Eagles, Packers and Bears are all within a game of eachother and look to all be in the same neighborhood. It's a bunch of talented, inconsistent teams. Anything could happen.
I'm not calling for his firing, but I just don't see McCarthy still being here a couple years from now. He's just not a good head coach. He's one-dimensional and doesn't seem to have a grasp of the intangibles that make a team click. Campen, though, should be gone before the end of the season.
Thanks, glad to see someone has a practical vision for this team as it is today. Agree with pretty much everything else you said.
More and more posters are calling this team average, or slightly above average. No argument from me
Ya, me too, Stuffin'
I thought that post was a pretty fair appraisal. Well, the Mengele allusion made me cringe a little, but when that's the only complaint about an analysis, I'd say it's a pretty decent analysis.
Good stuff.
I thought that post was a pretty fair appraisal. Well, the Mengele allusion made me cringe a little, but when that's the only complaint about an analysis, I'd say it's a pretty decent analysis.
Good stuff.
What really bothers me is that the pre-season was so promising, and we in Packer Nation bought into the hype. I even seem to remember someone posting an opinion that Packers fans should book rooms in Miami (I believe that's the site of the SB). Now, we are seeing the regular season team, and are horrified by the spectacle. I think its time the Packers clean house in the coaching ranks, and time for TT to be told, "Be active in free agency, or else we'll get someone who will be." I'm not suggesting signing just anybody, but some veteran leadership would be welcome (it seems as if Woodon, Harris, Kampman, Clifton, Tauscher, et. al., just aren't very vocal leaders).
MM isn't getting the most out of the talent TT has given him. TT hasn't done enough to get all the pieces of a good team together. His staff is sub-par. As noted, again, the players are simply not disciplined, and there seem to be no consequences for inexcusable behavior.
MM needs to go. Period. I dream of Cowher, but I believe he wants to run the whole show, something that is simply impossible to do in this day and age (just ask Holmgren or Mike Sherman).
By the way Sinatra- excellent post. One correction, though- it was Linus van Pelt who was attached to his blanket, not Charlie Brown.
MM isn't getting the most out of the talent TT has given him. TT hasn't done enough to get all the pieces of a good team together. His staff is sub-par. As noted, again, the players are simply not disciplined, and there seem to be no consequences for inexcusable behavior.
MM needs to go. Period. I dream of Cowher, but I believe he wants to run the whole show, something that is simply impossible to do in this day and age (just ask Holmgren or Mike Sherman).
By the way Sinatra- excellent post. One correction, though- it was Linus van Pelt who was attached to his blanket, not Charlie Brown.
QUOTE (ricky @ Nov 4 2009, 02:19 PM)
By the way Sinatra- excellent post. One correction, though- it was Linus van Pelt who was attached to his blanket, not Charlie Brown.
Dammit, I knew Charlie didn't sound right.
Good post. Agree and disagree with some.
Footballoutsiders.com has some playoff projections that take into account their DVOA analysis of each team. They simulate each team's season 10,000 times, giving a win or a loss based on their respective ratings. As of this week they give the wild card to the Packers and the Cowboys, with the Vikings, Eagles, Saints, and Cardinals winning their divisions. The Pack averaged 9.6 wins. I'd say I agree with this expectation.
And I don't expect us to lose to the Bears.
Footballoutsiders.com has some playoff projections that take into account their DVOA analysis of each team. They simulate each team's season 10,000 times, giving a win or a loss based on their respective ratings. As of this week they give the wild card to the Packers and the Cowboys, with the Vikings, Eagles, Saints, and Cardinals winning their divisions. The Pack averaged 9.6 wins. I'd say I agree with this expectation.
And I don't expect us to lose to the Bears.
The upcoming Sunday game has so many unsatisfying aspects.......
If we (somehow) lose to the Bucs (as we most certainly shouldnt) - well, I guess frustrations levels would boil over.
If we (convincingly) beat the Bucs (as we should) - it'll be hard to draw positive conclusions by beating a deadbeat.
The Dallas game is our first chance to (once again) prove ourselves worthy.
If we (somehow) lose to the Bucs (as we most certainly shouldnt) - well, I guess frustrations levels would boil over.
If we (convincingly) beat the Bucs (as we should) - it'll be hard to draw positive conclusions by beating a deadbeat.
The Dallas game is our first chance to (once again) prove ourselves worthy.
QUOTE (Leader @ Nov 5 2009, 05:53 AM)
The upcoming Sunday game has so many unsatisfying aspects.......
If we (somehow) lose to the Bucs (as we most certainly shouldnt) - well, I guess frustrations levels would boil over.
If we (convincingly) beat the Bucs (as we should) - it'll be hard to draw positive conclusions by beating a deadbeat.
The Dallas game is our first chance to (once again) prove ourselves worthy.
If we (somehow) lose to the Bucs (as we most certainly shouldnt) - well, I guess frustrations levels would boil over.
If we (convincingly) beat the Bucs (as we should) - it'll be hard to draw positive conclusions by beating a deadbeat.
The Dallas game is our first chance to (once again) prove ourselves worthy.
I will post this again- I am very pessimistic about the Packers chances against the Cowboys. Very pessimistic. When the Cowboys were reeling, they had a "statement game" against Atlanta. With their HC being "huggy bear" Wade Phillips. A coach who causes knowing looks and smirks when his name is mentioned.
I agree- the Dallas game will be the second chance for the Packers to make a "statement". However, the Minny-ha-ha game was the first chance they had to make a statement. They did make a statement- we're pretty mediocre, we come out flat, and we continue to make stupid mistakes, etc., etc., etc.
I'm actually not sure I'd like to see the Packers in the playoffs, because, at this this point, they're pretenders, not contenders.
I don't think 9-7 gets in as a WC in the NFC this year.
QUOTE (Leader @ Nov 4 2009, 06:53 PM)
The upcoming Sunday game has so many unsatisfying aspects.......
If we (somehow) lose to the Bucs (as we most certainly shouldnt) - well, I guess frustrations levels would boil over.
If we (convincingly) beat the Bucs (as we should) - it'll be hard to draw positive conclusions by beating a deadbeat.
The Dallas game is our first chance to (once again) prove ourselves worthy.
If we (somehow) lose to the Bucs (as we most certainly shouldnt) - well, I guess frustrations levels would boil over.
If we (convincingly) beat the Bucs (as we should) - it'll be hard to draw positive conclusions by beating a deadbeat.
The Dallas game is our first chance to (once again) prove ourselves worthy.
This is what is sad. To some of us here if we beat up on the Bucs of the NFL its no big deal cuz those teams are bad. Any time you win, especially on the road, is a good thing. All that is important is the W. Style points don't mean squat. (God help us all if we lose on Sunday!) We lost 3 games to 2 of the elite teams this year. There is alot of football yet to be played. Good teams beat up on the lousy ones. We aren't elite but if we can continue to beat these lesser teams and get ourselves into the playoffs anything can happen. Just ask AZ fans...
McCarthy needs to be fired................
I would like to see MM fired, but am hoping he'd get hired as OC for another NFC North team. Picking apart his game planning is a piece of cake.
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