The original group starting 2009 was:

LT Clifton
LG Colledge
OC Spitz
RG Sitton
RT Barbre

We now have

LT Lang
LG Colledge
OC Wells
RG Sitton
RT Barbre

I think the best we can get in 2010 is

LT 1st round draft pick
LG Lang
OC Wells
RG Sitton
RT Barbre/Giacomini

Further in the future

LT 1st round draft pick
LG Lang
OC 2nd round draft pick
RG Sitton
RT Barbre, Giacomini, or a new guy if neither progress

For backups, I'd like to see a LT/RT guy, an OG/OC guy and a developmental guy (total 8). That gives room for one more somewhere.

There are possibilities here for a very, very good line.

Nice to see you gave up on the left side, but not the right side. No, seriously, you must really not think much of Colledge, but I believe that he will be GB's LG for some time. Lang will find a spot, either LT or RT and I really don't know you will be the C.

Unless you get Mr. Thickhead to change his zone running schemes all that is still leaving us short

Wells is not going to be the future at center not even next year I think.

I think this is how the year unfolds when all are healthy.
LT Lang
LG Colledge
OC Spitz
RG Sitton
RT Barbre

Next year? Lang maybe to RT if they go after a franchise LT. If not we may see this same line-up next year.

I agree. GB needs to find a OL scheme that actually works. The OL we have is not bad, even good, IMO. Can't believe that all of these players cannot play, just they cannot figure it out and are thinking way too much for football players.

So what happens when Lang gets beaten up by Allen next week? Will everyone be calling for Clifton to play? Lang played one good game against nobody. Let's see what he does this week.

I think Colledge and Spitz will both be back next year. If Lang holds up well at LT for the rest of this season he likely gets the nod there for the future. Otherwise, Clifton returns to the lineup when healthy and they target a starting LT in the early part of the 2010 draft. If that's the case, Lang flips to RT and he battles with Barbre to be the starter over there. If Barbre beats him out, he becomes a utility player across the whole line. I'm still rooting for him, but there's a lot of football left to play this year before any of this stuff gets sorted out.

This is as jumbled a mess as it has ever been, especially since Colledge and Spitz may be FA. Do we know if Barbe has settled down and can play RT long term? No. Do we know if Lang can play LT? No. with more reps and experience, can Colledge play LT? Who knows. Is Spits the long term solution at C? I don't know. Sitton seems to be the only lock, and frankly I don't know how good he has been playing. You never hear his name, and as the saying goes that's a good thing. But is it? We don't really know how he's grading out.

I think all we know for sure is that Sitton and Lang will be starters somewhere o nthe line net year. After that, I think you need to take care of C and LT. You better be sure you get those right next year. If they do, I think the rest falls into place relativley easily- including reserves.

You are correct, I don't think much of our left side. Clifton is close to the end of his excellent career, or at the end. Colledge has not progressed to anything more than a below-average starter. I don't see Lang as anything more than a stopgap at LT, but I believe he can do better than College at LG.

Barbre might develop as a RT, he has a chance anyway. Even if he fails, there is Giacomini waiting as a possible RT. Sitton has been fine, especially when you consider he is in his first year as starter.



I don't think Packers think Lang is the long-term answer at LT. It is possible he proves them wrong, but I would still bet that LG is his position. It is not clear to me at this point in time, how much of Cliftons poor play recently is due to injury. if he can play 6 more games as a solid starter in 2009, I would count it as a big plus.

Just to put this out there, but there were many in the draft community and several scouts who thought that T.J. Lang might end up at center based on his offseason and all-star games. Many thought that it might end up being his best position in the NFL. I think that his versatility gives him a chance to play anywhere on the line.

I'm not sure that Lang is the long-term answer at LT. Packer Update quotes a scout that expresses the sentiment that he's too small and doesn't have the feet to play there. Seems like RT is his best spot, again according to that scout. Packers seemed to like him inside.

RT: If Barbre pans out, Lang would likely go inside. If not, Lang could battle for the RT spot next year. Colledge supposedly is a lock at the LG spot, but he played well at RT in relief late last year. McGinn thought Colledge should have competed for the position in preseason.

RG: Seems Sitton has locked down the RG spot. If Wells has locked down the C spot (I don't think he has), Spitz could compete here, but I think Spitz belongs at C.

C: Wells may be there now, but I think Spitz goes back there after he has practiced a full week. Wells may be bigger this year, but he's injury-prone and is limited. I think Spitz gets this position back eventually.

LG: As another poster suggested Colledge is a very average (or below) LG. In Pelissaro's game tape review (always an excellent read), Colledge got beat three times in a row when we were near the goal line and trying to stuff it in. All indications are that Colledge is a priorty to resign, but I can't see why. He may be best suited to RT. Just doesn't seem to have "it" inside. He's smart, willing to shuffle around, but I think this is a position to upgrade. Lang might be that guy.

LT: Lang for now. Cliffy probably will be back there eventually this year with Lang playing backup. Next year, this will probably be filled with a draft pick. Lang could surprise and be the answer here (I'd love to see it and hope he does), but I'm not betting on it.

So, assuming Barbre can lock down the RT spot, from left to right next year: Draft Pick, Lang, Spitz, Sitton, Barbre

If Barbre doesn't pan out: Draft Pick, Colledge, Spitz, Sitton, Lang. This is not ideal, as our left side is weak/a big question mark. OR Draft Pick, Lang, Spitz, Sitton, Colledge. This might not be too bad.

All common projections indicate LT is a big question mark.

I hope Colledge is gone next year. I don't even want them to think about giving him any decent contract as a FA. Not worth it.(He's not McCarthy's son-in-law is he?)

2010 line that I'd like to see:

Lang - LT

Spitz - LG

Wells - C

Sitton - RG

Barbre - RT

See if Clifton or Tausch wants to sign a 3-yr. deal to finish up their career in GB as a spot starter.

The one commonality in all of these projections is that it seems all of you are content with Sitton at RG, and see him as a fixture. That's a nice thing that among all the uncertainties, that he's seemed to settle in pretty well.

Still, it is interesting that many thought pretty highly of Colledge coming into this season and many were unsure of Sitton. Now, almost universal selection of Sitton at RG and no Colledge anywhere. How quickly one makes decisions and it is a good thing that we are not on the GB staff.

I will say that Colledge will be GB's starting LG into the future and I see Sitton as the RG. Seems that the Guard positions look to be set more than the other spots, while the Guards were the most difficult to cover for the last couple of years. I have not seen the game, but Lang would have a future here somewhere, based on others comments. While Barbre was lamblasted in the early season, that has seem to calm down, but I will not proclaim him the future, he will need to continue to earn it, just like Colledge and Sitton. The C and LT???

That was my thought. People are too reactionary.

I think the "O line of the future" is going to wearing jetpacks.

I hope its:

Lang
Colledge
Spitz
Sitton
Barbre

Because that would mean all those guys step up the rest of this season. Throw in a high round OT prospect that can play LT and I'll be happy.

As it stands now, I could see it being difficult for Spitz to get the center job back unless Wells has a really bad game coming up. Hopefully Lang starts this week and holds his own and Barbre continues to improve as he has all season long.

I would like to see Colledge just move on.

Colledge is SO over-valued. 2009 and 2008 have been bad years for him, he's just not capable as a starter. Packers failed on him, so cut your losses.

I see Spitz returning though. I think he can be serviceable at center or guard.

2010 O-Line (Dream Scenario)

LT: Free Agent
LG: 1st Round Pick
C: Spitz
RG: Sitton
RT: Lang

This would be an improved line.

You overpay, but you know you're getting a solid tackle in free agency. TT's definitely capable of signing a FA now that his seat is probably getting a little warm.

Your guards are Sitton and a 1st Round Pick. Sitton's not good. I'd say he's below-average. So I think if TT can finally hit on a draft pick, that draft pick can out perform Sitton and you put him at left guard. You can get by with Sitton at RG for a year.

Spitz is solid at center. You can get by with him.

And then as long as Lang continues to show progression, we should be okay at the right tackle spot.

So I think that would be a solid line. But TT's definitely going to have to spend some cash on a FA. By now he should realize he's not that good at guessing on lineman in the draft.

I have heard that Lang's versatility is a strength and that he doesn't have long enough arms to be a left tackle. I also read an article recently saying his arms about an inch shorter than the best from the draft. Could someone explain to me how that little bit of difference in arm length makes someone have a lesser grade? Not knowing a great deal about the intricacies of line play I found it interesting that could be so significant.

Long arms make it easier for tackles to reach in order to get contact with their men. Even an inch can make a big difference when they're as fast and strong as today's NFL caliber pass rushers. Short arms don't hurt interior linemen as much because things are much more compact and they need to reach less to get contact with who they're blocking. Longer arms help to keep your opponent from locking on or punching you away.

As far as T. J. Lang is concerned, I think that his versatility is the result of him being physically ideal and having the strength needed for an OG position, while playing (and seemingly holding up) as both a RT and LT in college. He was 17 when he started his first game and he started every one in his college career. Many scouts felt that his quickness, body type, intelligence and attitude made him an ideal OC. . . even though he'd never played the position before. They asked him to try snapping the ball in all-star games and practices and he did well. It's similar to how Matt Birk played OT at Harvard and then moved inside to OC in the NFL. I see a lot of the qualities that I like in Mark Tauscher and Matt Birk in T. J. Lang (maybe with a bit more athleticism than both.)

Just curious how you came to this conclusion? From the articles I've seen he's done well run-blocking. Pass blocking I'm not so sure about though. What have you read or seen?

I think that Josh Sitton has been just fine as a starter. He's solid in the run game and hasn't been the problem in pass protection. I understand that Vots doesn't like the offensive line that is currently grouped in Green Bay, but I really don't think that there's going to be as much change as he thinks. Starting LTs in free agency are either low quality, super expensive or Franchise Players and 1st round OGs are usually not the norm. It's easier to find a decent free agent OG that can be bought reasonably (as they are less likely to be coveted) and draft a starting OT in the mid-to-late 1st round. If a number of underclassmen end up coming out early I can see this year being really strong for offensive tackles. I hate to break it to him, but I think that the team ends up bringing back Colledge and Spitz and teaming them up with Sitton for the same interior line moving forward. I can see the Packers drafting an OT early in the draft and playing him day one, while pitting Lang and Barbre against each other for the RT spot. I just hope that it represents an improvement over this season's early showing. I don't think that the talent on the line is as bad as it's made out to be, and certainly not the interior line.

I'm also curious as to where the criticism of Sitton comes from. McGinn is one of the few sports writers who's opinion I respect, and he seems to think Sitton is holding up pretty well. Not all-pro or anything right now, but I'd say Sitton is definitely a solid bet as our long term RG.

As to the future O-Line as a unit, I pretty much agree with this.


I'm not exactly convinced Wells was given a fair shot during his competition w/Spitz during TC, but if he holds up again vs MIN this week, I'd expect him to get a legit shot to replace Spitz at C.

In the end I'm hoping we have a shot at a decent LT in the draft or FA, allowing Lang to compete at LG, RT or even C if it's true that he's a natural for the position.

When you're okay at run-blocking and not that good at pass protection, I'd put them down as a below-average player.

I can see the Packers keeping Spitz. I think he's our best lineman. But if they bring back Colledge as well, might as well throw in the towel.

And good point about free agency tackles. It would make more sense to target a solid guard in free agency. And if you have to overpay, if that's what it takes, so be it.

If we could get land a good prospect tackle in the draft (not these late round "gems") and have Lang and a draft pick at the tackle spots. A solid free agent guard. And then you keep Spitz and put him at center while Sitton stays and plays guard. I see a line that could be light years ahead of our current one.

I agree. The round 1 pick should be a solid LT if we draft high enough to land one of the studs. OG would be much easier to upgrade through FA and a little later in the draft. It wouldn't take that much to seriously upgrade this OL. Question is: Will Thompson do it? Right now I'm not getting that warm fuzzy feeling.

Curious why so many posters are happy to keep Barbre at RT? Am I missing something?

I really like Sitton and Barbre over the long haul. Lang also seems to have 'it'.

I think next year we'll need to do whatever we can to get a OT in the next draft.

For me it's more a sense of resignation. I think the coaching staff is committed to Barbre until he forces them to make a change. In truth he hasn't been terrible the past few weeks. He still seems to have a couple "WTF?" plays a game, but in the end he may actually pan out.

I'd like to see Lang get a shot at RT, but I expect the reason Lang was slotted at LG in TC was b/c the staff wants the option of having Lang step in to replace Colledge if we can't get him resigned after the season.

The future of the OL would not look bad at all if we could add a legit LT.

To be honest, there is very little about our OL I like.

This includes the coach, the scheme and the players.

The only two players I would keep are Spitz at center and Sitton at RG. I would keep Wells for depth.

Everything else, I would replace and start over.

Beginning with the coach and scheme.

I'm sure everyone would rather have a sure-fire probowler there (just like at every other position), but you go into games with the football team you have. Barbre hasn't looked bad since week 1 (his first NFL start), so at this point he's probably a better option than a rusty Chad Clifton.

At this point, you're right. They have to go with what they have and make the best of it. Slide protection and gameplan for your weaknesses along with strengths. We'll see how well Cliffy is and I'm hoping he's pretty close to 100%.

But this thread is about the O-line of the future, not what you have now. And in the future, there should absolutely be no room for Barbre (at least not in the starting lineup anyways).

Anyways, hopefully after this game, people realize that this line isn't going anywhere. A lot of people were thinking they were progressing after beating up on two of the worst teams in the NFL.

I will give credit where credit is due though. Although TJ Lang had a bad game, he probably looks the most promising lineman we got. A couple of those sacks, Jared Allen owned him with veteran, all-pro moves. Over time, I think it's very possible that Lang develops into a tackle that you can rely on, as he gains more experience, learns how to anticipate, and develops a natural instinct. Based on what I've seen from him.

But, I will reiterate that Spitz, Sitton, and Lang are the only guys we have right now, that I would be okay with starting next year. Colledge and Barbre need replaced with surefire talent from the draft and/or free agency.

Agree! Barbre is terrible. Colledge isn't much better.

Are you judging Colledge on something specific from yesterday or continuing to criticize his poor play at LT?

I ask because according to what I've read from people who can actually break down o-line play, Colledge played a good game on Sunday.

[b]I think the best we can get in 2010 is

LT 1st round draft pick
LG Lang
OC Wells and FA
RG Sitton
RT 2nd round draft pick and FA

[i]Further in the future

LT 1st round draft pick
LG Lang
OC 3nd round draft pick
RG Sitton
RT 2nd round draft pick

The problem with Colledge is that he cannot play LT and he is average at LG.

He does not get a lot of push there.

I think he should be replaced.

We have to develop a run game and guys who can play one spot well and another well enough.

Lang should move to RT. It's a better spot for him and he has shown he can handle a Tackle position. Plus Thompson loves building with "his" guys. Spitz will get the nod over Wells, it's what the coaching staff/thompson wants. The competition between Wells and Spitz wasn't a competition. Wells wasnt going to win and isn't now. Colledge is adequate, if not spectacular. LT is a complete question mark. It wouldn't shock me in the least if Thompson, after pressure starts to build and he realizes he's not immune to loss of his job, actually gets off his butt and signs a free agent this offseason.

It annoys me very much that the prototype LT prospect, Meredith got discarded for the "much better" option of 3 Fullbacks.

RT Lang
RG Sitton (who actually hasn't been bad)
C Spitz
LG Colledge
LT Who knows.


LT will be a problem. A rookie may help, but, that should have been something we looked at in last draft, not the next one.

What he said, even though I think keeping Breno over Meredith annoys me more than keeping the 3rd fullback.

Back to original topic, I don't know that Lang proved or disproved anything against the Vikings. Barbre allowed 6 pressures, but no sacks. That's still not good.

Lang looks like a player and this offseason the coaching staff should decide EARLY where he belongs (I don't think he's a LT). Don't do to him what they've done to Spitz and Barbre where they were moved all over and couldn't really settle in anywhere. That just doesn't bode well for player development and line cohesion.

I still think Barbre could improve and I wouldn't rule him out (for next year) yet. Another offseason learning the intricacies of the position will be helpful. He may get supplanted by Tausch this year though. I would love to see Ted address the OT position this offseason in the draft and maybe FA. If Lang is part of the OT, well actually RT, equation, fine. But I still see a glaring hole at LT.

IMO, Barbre, Colledge, Spitz and Giocomini are all one in the same. I'd put Sitton a bit ahead of them and T.J. Lang ahead of all of them.

I think you've got to find a way to keep Lang on the field. Personally, I'd like to see a lineup of:

LT: 1st round pick or free agent
LG: Lang
C: Spitz
RG: Sitton
RT: Free agent/draft pick

Granted, it's a good deal of youth assuming none of those will be a free agent acquisition, but I think it'd give Rodgers much better protection.

I think a lot of people that don't want Colledge back are going to disappointed because he's a near lock to be re-signed.

The problems on the OL this year have been entirely on the outside.

The more I see of Lang, the more I think

LT: ???
LG: Colledge
C: Spitz/Wells
RG: Sitton
RT: Lang

could be an effective OL if we could replace the ??? at LT with an competent player. Colledge is adequate, as are Spitz and Wells. I think Sitton will mature into a very good player, and pairing him with Lang could make for a dependable right side to run behind that is less susceptible to protection breakdowns.

Still leaves a gaping hole at LT, but at least we'd be able to concentrate on filling that one position.

How do you know Lang will do a good job there? Sitton is having the best year of all the linemen. Let Lang play there, if he ever does before you think you have the problem solved.

Aggressive much?

If you mean Lang is aggressive, that's what they say about Barbre. There are agressive guys in every neighborhood bar. I prefer to see how they play the position

Looks like Lang will be the starter at RT this weekend.

If Colledge keeps playing at a terrible level and Lang steps up, TT is going to have an interesting decision to make this offseason. If the CBA isn't renewed in time for next year, is Colledge restricted?

If he is, keep Colledge one more year and keep Lang outside at RT (have Barbre and Giacomini battle for the backup spot). Focus on finding a LT. The year after, if Colledge doesn't show anything, let him walk and have Lang move to LG, and if Barbre has shown anything, let him take over the RT spot or fill with draft pick or FA. That's much easier to upgrade the line than if Colledge is not a RFA and he continues to play terribly (let him go). Then there are two spots to fill next year (LT and LG/RT depending on where Lang goes).

Looks like 2010 will be an uncapped year, which means Colledge and Spitz will be restricted. Wasn't too long ago that both seemed to be in line for big paydays. Sure doesn't look that way now. Unless Colledge turns things around quickly, I would think we'd be able to resign both of them at a reasonable cost. I'm just not sure whether that's a good thing.