The Packers and the Browns are two of the NFL's three most historic franchises (this just in - the third still sucks.) The Browns of the 50s invented the modern passing game, and their OC, Bill Walsh, went on to become one of the all time greatest head coaches, changing the game forever with his Paul Brown / Bill Walsh West Coast Offense. The modern Browns, unfortunately, were dealt a sucker punch by their "owner," Art Modell, who moved them in the middle of the night to Baltimore. This resulting in the best NFL t-shirt I've ever seen (Cleveland Browns: NFL record three undefeated seasons, '96, '97, '98) and ongoing problems as a new expansion franchise collecting talented players and a decent coaching staff. To date they really haven't recovered from Modell's treachery.
For two weeks in a row the Packers have been feasting on bottom feeders - the Lions and the Browns. Well, a Halibut or Cat Fish meal can be great from time to time. Also interestingly, the Packers just finished game #2 in a three game series where we play the Steeler's sloppy seconds - next week we get the recently derailed Vikings, fresh off Three Rivers Stadium and a most enjoyable loss which can be laid right at the feet of their QB's insufferable arrogance. Sorry, I've temporarily forgotten his name, Brent something weird.
The Packers played with a couple of new tackles, Barbre and Lang. Tauscher wasn't ready to start after his ACL surgery last year, and Clifton continues to battle ankle strain problems. The Browns don't have the scariest pass rushers in the NFL, but for the new young tackles this was a very welcome week of practice followed by a confidence building game. Aaron Rodgers, he of the NFL-leading 25 sacks in 4 games, wasn't sacked a single time. If the OL can protect at a roughly similar level next week and beyond, then our major offensive problem is under control.
Coach McCarthy said the primary problem with the running game was a lack of commitment and called running plays. That was rectified this week, Ryan Gran ran the ball 27 times for a 5.5 yard per carry average. There were 41 runs (including 4 scrambles by Rodgers) to 22 passes, the first time I remember more runs than passes in several years, much less a 2/3 run ratio. At 5.5 yards per carry the pass rush was well controlled and the play action passes were very effective. I expect there were other problems, including a lack of stability at the various OL positions, but however you look at it it was a great day for our run game, which wracked up 202 yards. One loses very few games when one can run the ball for 200 yards. I fervently hope that this is a sign that '07s running game is back, and '08s running game is now a thing of history only.
The Packers generally have been disappointing in the red zone; although this is a top-10 offense, the TD rate in the red zone ranks 25th. This is generally blamed on several things, including poor protection, conservative decisions by Rodgers, and completely unintimidating running game. Today, with a more effective running game, which by its nature also improves pass protection, the red zone efficiency was up.
Jermichael Finley was hurt early on, giving a first real chance to perennial backup Spencer Havner. Havner, who went to my kid's high school, rose beautifully to the occasion catching two passes for 59 yards and a TD. Our depth on offense now is such that no matter who we put in, they're a threat to score.
The defense again was excellent. The Browns had been averaging 12 points per game, hardly breath-taking but far in excess of the 3 points we allowed them. The Lions had been averaging 20 points per game, considerably better than the 0 we allowed them. This week we had a timely interception and a timely fumble recovery.
Once again, Matthews had an excellent game, but even more encouragingly Hawk, who was all but benched last week, played for much of the game and responded with a team leading 7 solo tackles. Similarly Kampman had a better game than last week, perhaps demonstrating that his comfort in this new 3-4 scheme is improving. D.C. Caples and Linebacker Coach Greene have been consistent and clear, they expect that Kampman will be back to a dominant player again by the end of the season, except with a whole new bag of tricks. We'll see, but I feel more hopeful today than I have in the past.
The Packers DL similarly had a good game, showing good penetration on passing plays and a set of clean linebackers on running plays. We didn't hear a lot about them, but in a perfect 3-4 that's how it's supposed to be.
The Browns consistently went after Al Harris in their passing game, looking for all the world like Cool Hand Luke with Capers playing the Warden who gets the line "What we have here is a failure to communicate." Perhaps someone should have told the Browns that while Luke has those flashing blue eyes and winning smile, he still winds up dead. J.C.Fields perhaps summarized their passing game with his remark, "If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then give up. There's no sense being a damned fool about it."
The Packers special teams were unremarkable, missing a 55 yard field goal attempt and allowing a roughly 30 yard average on kick / punt returns. The one bright spot on the Brown's roster is their kick returner, Cribbs, who generally was responsible for the Browns having excellent starting position on their drives. He does that against pretty much everyone, so, like, deal with it. We did. It's not where you start, it's where you end up, and the Browns ended up on their bench wringing their hands.
Next up: the Vikings, the latest in a series of Steelers bit teams. Favre has had his fun on MNF, showing the world that he still has it. My expectation is that next week he'll try to do too much and we'll get a couple turnovers off of him, just as Pittsburgh did. The Vikings will play us tough, but I like our chances this time, unlike last time. We're not in a position to win the division outright - we need help from the Vikings in the form of their very traditional late season collapse for that to happen - but we are in a good position to control our fate as a playoff team. We've had a week's rest, our new tackles have somewhat settled in, and we've had a couple good confidence building games. Now we need to build an exciting structure on top of this excellent foundation.
Full Version: Packers @ Browns Game Review
QUOTE (marklawrence @ Oct 26 2009, 07:35 AM) 
The Packers and the Browns are two of the NFL's three most historic franchises (this just in - the third still sucks.) The Browns of the 50s invented the modern passing game, and their OC, Bill Walsh, went on to become one of the all time greatest head coaches, changing the game forever with his Paul Brown / Bill Walsh West Coast Offense. The modern Browns, unfortunately, were dealt a sucker punch by their "owner," Art Modell, who moved them in the middle of the night to Baltimore. This resulting in the best NFL t-shirt I've ever seen (Cleveland Browns: NFL record three undefeated seasons, '96, '97, '98) and ongoing problems as a new expansion franchise collecting talented players and a decent coaching staff. To date they really haven't recovered from Modell's treachery.
For two weeks in a row the Packers have been feasting on bottom feeders - the Lions and the Browns. Well, a Halibut or Cat Fish meal can be great from time to time. Also interestingly, the Packers just finished game #2 in a three game series where we play the Steeler's sloppy seconds - next week we get the recently derailed Vikings, fresh off Three Rivers Stadium and a most enjoyable loss which can be laid right at the feet of their QB's insufferable arrogance. Sorry, I've temporarily forgotten his name, Brent something weird.
The Packers played with a couple of new tackles, Barbre and Lang. Tauscher wasn't ready to start after his ACL surgery last year, and Clifton continues to battle ankle strain problems. The Browns don't have the scariest pass rushers in the NFL, but for the new young tackles this was a very welcome week of practice followed by a confidence building game. Aaron Rodgers, he of the NFL-leading 25 sacks in 4 games, wasn't sacked a single time. If the OL can protect at a roughly similar level next week and beyond, then our major offensive problem is under control.
Coach McCarthy said the primary problem with the running game was a lack of commitment and called running plays. That was rectified this week, Ryan Gran ran the ball 27 times for a 5.5 yard per carry average. There were 41 runs (including 4 scrambles by Rodgers) to 22 passes, the first time I remember more runs than passes in several years, much less a 2/3 run ratio. At 5.5 yards per carry the pass rush was well controlled and the play action passes were very effective. I expect there were other problems, including a lack of stability at the various OL positions, but however you look at it it was a great day for our run game, which wracked up 202 yards. One loses very few games when one can run the ball for 200 yards. I fervently hope that this is a sign that '07s running game is back, and '08s running game is now a thing of history only.
The Packers generally have been disappointing in the red zone; although this is a top-10 offense, the TD rate in the red zone ranks 25th. This is generally blamed on several things, including poor protection, conservative decisions by Rodgers, and completely unintimidating running game. Today, with a more effective running game, which by its nature also improves pass protection, the red zone efficiency was up.
Jermichael Finley was hurt early on, giving a first real chance to perennial backup Spencer Havner. Havner, who went to my kid's high school, rose beautifully to the occasion catching two passes for 59 yards and a TD. Our depth on offense now is such that no matter who we put in, they're a threat to score.
The defense again was excellent. The Browns had been averaging 12 points per game, hardly breath-taking but far in excess of the 3 points we allowed them. The Lions had been averaging 20 points per game, considerably better than the 0 we allowed them. This week we had a timely interception and a timely fumble recovery.
Once again, Matthews had an excellent game, but even more encouragingly Hawk, who was all but benched last week, played for much of the game and responded with a team leading 7 solo tackles. Similarly Kampman had a better game than last week, perhaps demonstrating that his comfort in this new 3-4 scheme is improving. D.C. Caples and Linebacker Coach Greene have been consistent and clear, they expect that Kampman will be back to a dominant player again by the end of the season, except with a whole new bag of tricks. We'll see, but I feel more hopeful today than I have in the past.
The Packers DL similarly had a good game, showing good penetration on passing plays and a set of clean linebackers on running plays. We didn't hear a lot about them, but in a perfect 3-4 that's how it's supposed to be.
The Browns consistently went after Al Harris in their passing game, looking for all the world like Cool Hand Luke with Capers playing the Warden who gets the line "What we have here is a failure to communicate." Perhaps someone should have told the Browns that while Luke has those flashing blue eyes and winning smile, he still winds up dead. J.C.Fields perhaps summarized their passing game with his remark, "If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then give up. There's no sense being a damned fool about it."
The Packers special teams were unremarkable, missing a 55 yard field goal attempt and allowing a roughly 30 yard average on kick / punt returns. The one bright spot on the Brown's roster is their kick returner, Cribbs, who generally was responsible for the Browns having excellent starting position on their drives. He does that against pretty much everyone, so, like, deal with it. We did. It's not where you start, it's where you end up, and the Browns ended up on their bench wringing their hands.
Next up: the Vikings, the latest in a series of Steelers bit teams. Favre has had his fun on MNF, showing the world that he still has it. My expectation is that next week he'll try to do too much and we'll get a couple turnovers off of him, just as Pittsburgh did. The Vikings will play us tough, but I like our chances this time, unlike last time. We're not in a position to win the division outright - we need help from the Vikings in the form of their very traditional late season collapse for that to happen - but we are in a good position to control our fate as a playoff team. We've had a week's rest, our new tackles have somewhat settled in, and we've had a couple good confidence building games. Now we need to build an exciting structure on top of this excellent foundation.
For two weeks in a row the Packers have been feasting on bottom feeders - the Lions and the Browns. Well, a Halibut or Cat Fish meal can be great from time to time. Also interestingly, the Packers just finished game #2 in a three game series where we play the Steeler's sloppy seconds - next week we get the recently derailed Vikings, fresh off Three Rivers Stadium and a most enjoyable loss which can be laid right at the feet of their QB's insufferable arrogance. Sorry, I've temporarily forgotten his name, Brent something weird.
The Packers played with a couple of new tackles, Barbre and Lang. Tauscher wasn't ready to start after his ACL surgery last year, and Clifton continues to battle ankle strain problems. The Browns don't have the scariest pass rushers in the NFL, but for the new young tackles this was a very welcome week of practice followed by a confidence building game. Aaron Rodgers, he of the NFL-leading 25 sacks in 4 games, wasn't sacked a single time. If the OL can protect at a roughly similar level next week and beyond, then our major offensive problem is under control.
Coach McCarthy said the primary problem with the running game was a lack of commitment and called running plays. That was rectified this week, Ryan Gran ran the ball 27 times for a 5.5 yard per carry average. There were 41 runs (including 4 scrambles by Rodgers) to 22 passes, the first time I remember more runs than passes in several years, much less a 2/3 run ratio. At 5.5 yards per carry the pass rush was well controlled and the play action passes were very effective. I expect there were other problems, including a lack of stability at the various OL positions, but however you look at it it was a great day for our run game, which wracked up 202 yards. One loses very few games when one can run the ball for 200 yards. I fervently hope that this is a sign that '07s running game is back, and '08s running game is now a thing of history only.
The Packers generally have been disappointing in the red zone; although this is a top-10 offense, the TD rate in the red zone ranks 25th. This is generally blamed on several things, including poor protection, conservative decisions by Rodgers, and completely unintimidating running game. Today, with a more effective running game, which by its nature also improves pass protection, the red zone efficiency was up.
Jermichael Finley was hurt early on, giving a first real chance to perennial backup Spencer Havner. Havner, who went to my kid's high school, rose beautifully to the occasion catching two passes for 59 yards and a TD. Our depth on offense now is such that no matter who we put in, they're a threat to score.
The defense again was excellent. The Browns had been averaging 12 points per game, hardly breath-taking but far in excess of the 3 points we allowed them. The Lions had been averaging 20 points per game, considerably better than the 0 we allowed them. This week we had a timely interception and a timely fumble recovery.
Once again, Matthews had an excellent game, but even more encouragingly Hawk, who was all but benched last week, played for much of the game and responded with a team leading 7 solo tackles. Similarly Kampman had a better game than last week, perhaps demonstrating that his comfort in this new 3-4 scheme is improving. D.C. Caples and Linebacker Coach Greene have been consistent and clear, they expect that Kampman will be back to a dominant player again by the end of the season, except with a whole new bag of tricks. We'll see, but I feel more hopeful today than I have in the past.
The Packers DL similarly had a good game, showing good penetration on passing plays and a set of clean linebackers on running plays. We didn't hear a lot about them, but in a perfect 3-4 that's how it's supposed to be.
The Browns consistently went after Al Harris in their passing game, looking for all the world like Cool Hand Luke with Capers playing the Warden who gets the line "What we have here is a failure to communicate." Perhaps someone should have told the Browns that while Luke has those flashing blue eyes and winning smile, he still winds up dead. J.C.Fields perhaps summarized their passing game with his remark, "If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then give up. There's no sense being a damned fool about it."
The Packers special teams were unremarkable, missing a 55 yard field goal attempt and allowing a roughly 30 yard average on kick / punt returns. The one bright spot on the Brown's roster is their kick returner, Cribbs, who generally was responsible for the Browns having excellent starting position on their drives. He does that against pretty much everyone, so, like, deal with it. We did. It's not where you start, it's where you end up, and the Browns ended up on their bench wringing their hands.
Next up: the Vikings, the latest in a series of Steelers bit teams. Favre has had his fun on MNF, showing the world that he still has it. My expectation is that next week he'll try to do too much and we'll get a couple turnovers off of him, just as Pittsburgh did. The Vikings will play us tough, but I like our chances this time, unlike last time. We're not in a position to win the division outright - we need help from the Vikings in the form of their very traditional late season collapse for that to happen - but we are in a good position to control our fate as a playoff team. We've had a week's rest, our new tackles have somewhat settled in, and we've had a couple good confidence building games. Now we need to build an exciting structure on top of this excellent foundation.
THIS is the marklawrence I know! Funny, incisive, witty- oh enough- I think he's beginning to blush!
OK, paragraph by paragraph (yawn!). True, Brown and Walsh did definitely re-define the game. However, Cleveland really forced Modell to leave. The stadium was a shambles and a moldering, rotten joke. It made Cowboys Stadium ( a real dump! We were there) look like a palace. When Baltimore called and told him he could have a decent stadium and a decent return on his money, he jumped at the chance. It was very unfortunate that they loaded up the trucks in the middle of the night, and I really felt sorry for all those Cleveland fans. However, their hearts were big, and their wallets were shut. We can write about whose responsibility it is to maintain a stadium, the municipality or the team, and how the income should be divided, etc. another time. The Browns were dissed by Cleveland, and they left.
Ah yes, Brett again strikes fear into the heart of his teammates by throwing game changing TD's. Still, in sixteen years in GB, the man gave me a lot of thrills and exultation. I am not happy he is a Viking, but I would welcome him back as an honorary Packer to retire (formally- once and for all- forever- really- double pinky swear!).
You're absolutely right. The OL did look good this week. Not only did the OL keep Rodgers jersey clean, they also opened holes for a hard charging Ryan Grant. Lets hope the signing of Green has finally lit a fire under Grant. Sure, he said he was strongly behind the signing. Could it be because he really thinks he needs someone pushing him to be successful? And, if that is true, what does it say about RB coach Bennett?
Again, excellent thoughts. The running game was indeed dominant. Especially when MM started the game with (I believe) nine runs and one pass. At first, I was a bit perturbed. The run became too predictable for my taste, and I would have preferred seeing a couple more passes mixed in to keep the defense "back on their heels". However, can you really argue with success? Speaking of- is there anyone out there who is really still anxious for Tauscher and Clifton to re-take their old positions? I fully realize this was a third rate franchise (thank you, Eric Mangini, et. al). I really do respect the jobs these two veterans have done- but, sooner or later, every player will have to be replaced- didn't the Packers have a QB before Rodgers? Shoot, if I could only remember his name. Don something?
Sorry, Mark, but the Packers, to my mind, again stunk in the red zone. Remember a few games ago, they were on the Vikings doorstep, and couldn't punch it in against a very good DL. This week, against a Browns D that was really depeleted, they showed the same lack of physical "push". That Grant scored from the one-yard-line was his effort, and, thankfully, the refs ruled he's fumbled after he broke the plane of the end zone. Statistically better, but still not good at all.
As far as Havner goes, my goodness, terrific game. This guy is a triple threat- offense, defense and special teams. Totally unexpected, and very welcome. However, I still hope that Finley recovers quickly and completely from his injury.
OK, hurrying through the last- the defense was excellent, except for giving the Browns too many first downs on penalties. Didn't matter in this game. Against a good team, it could make the difference. Hawk does look rejuvenated. Finally, I think he understands he has to perform at a high level to keep his starting spot. Good. Will Brett feel forced against the Packers? That remains to be seen. The bigger question is if Harris gets too hyped up again (as someone else noted, as he had against Dallas/Owens and New York/Burress), will MM sit him and put in Williams? Harris can get too emotional, and starts playing outside of himself. If that happens, MM needs a quick hook, and Harris needs to decompress. I see this as a larger problem than Brett (or is it Brent
) for the Packers.
It would seem the continuing superior play of Mr. Aaron Rodgers has brought us to the point where except his
poise, accuracy, elusiveness and leadership without comment.
poise, accuracy, elusiveness and leadership without comment.
QUOTE (marklawrence @ Oct 25 2009, 08:35 PM)
Next up: the Vikings, the latest in a series of Steelers bit teams. Favre has had his fun on MNF, showing the world that he still has it. My expectation is that next week he'll try to do too much and we'll get a couple turnovers off of him, just as Pittsburgh did. The Vikings will play us tough, but I like our chances this time, unlike last time. We're not in a position to win the division outright - we need help from the Vikings in the form of their very traditional late season collapse for that to happen - but we are in a good position to control our fate as a playoff team. We've had a week's rest, our new tackles have somewhat settled in, and we've had a couple good confidence building games. Now we need to build an exciting structure on top of this excellent foundation.
Not true. If we win on Sunday then we are tied. If both teams would win out afterward, then we would more than likely win the division by strength of victory. Just pointing that out. There is of course a lot of football left to be played.
QUOTE (KC Pack Fan @ Oct 26 2009, 05:55 PM)
Not true. If we win on Sunday then we are tied. If both teams would win out afterward, then we would more than likely win the division by strength of victory. Just pointing that out. There is of course a lot of football left to be played.
I think Mark means that the Packers' schedule down the stretch is more hazardous than Minny's — they've already seen the Ravens and Steelers, for example, we haven't. If the Packers are to win the North, they'll probably need the Vikings to drop one or two games to so-so opponents.
QUOTE (ammek @ Oct 26 2009, 11:07 AM)
I think Mark means that the Packers' schedule down the stretch is more hazardous than Minny's — they've already seen the Ravens and Steelers, for example, we haven't. If the Packers are to win the North, they'll probably need the Vikings to drop one or two games to so-so opponents.
Common opponents remaining-
DET, SEA, ARI, CHI
Packers "other games" -
TB, DAL SF, BAL, PIT
(record 15-17 .469)
ViQueens "other games" -
CHI(again), CAR, CIN, NYG
(record 15-11 .577)
We both play 2 teams above .500 and 1 below.
We play 2 teams at .500 and they play 1.
I think the schedules are very similar.
We need to win Sunday to really make this race close!!
Go Pack!!
QUOTE (marklawrence @ Oct 25 2009, 07:35 PM)
The Packers and the Browns are two of the NFL's three most historic franchises (this just in - the third still sucks.) The Browns of the 50s invented the modern passing game, and their OC, Bill Walsh, went on to become one of the all time greatest head coaches, changing the game forever with his Paul Brown / Bill Walsh West Coast Offense. The modern Browns, unfortunately, were dealt a sucker punch by their "owner," Art Modell, who moved them in the middle of the night to Baltimore. This resulting in the best NFL t-shirt I've ever seen (Cleveland Browns: NFL record three undefeated seasons, '96, '97, '98) and ongoing problems as a new expansion franchise collecting talented players and a decent coaching staff. To date they really haven't recovered from Modell's treachery.
I believe Paul Brown / Bill Walsh invented the West Coast Offense while they were both with the Bengals. I'm almost positive about that.
They did name the Browns after him though.
Well, here is the week all Packers fans wanted after the MNF loss to the Vikings and QB #4. He returns to Green Bay for the 1st time since getting dealt to Minnesota and I expect a NOT SO NICE welcome by all Packers fans. I know I won't be clapping for him.
But on Sunday the Packers got another much needed win. Yes it was vs the Browns, but the Packers HAVE to win that game, infact they needed to win the last two games (vs the Lions and Browns). Those are the games that they are supposed to win against "the lower level teams" and they did it in dominating fashion.
The defense hasn't given up a TD in 2 games and they are flying around like they were in the pre season. Charles Woodson is playing like a player looking for a DPOTY award.
On offense TJ Lang looked like he has some promise as the LT of the future and them line gave up 0 sacks. I don't care if it was the Browns, they are still pro's and still busted their tails to try and sack Rodgers and they couldn't. Grant looked good and Driver was, well Driver.
That game gave the Packers exactly what they needed, a shot to retake the NFC North lead if they beat the Vikings on Sunday. The team seems to be looking better in all 3 phases, I would like to see Jennings more involved in the offense, but I would gladly take the wins until he gets going (which should equal even more wins).
I expect a different result this time vs the Vikings and the Packers retake the division lead and start their roll to Miami.
But on Sunday the Packers got another much needed win. Yes it was vs the Browns, but the Packers HAVE to win that game, infact they needed to win the last two games (vs the Lions and Browns). Those are the games that they are supposed to win against "the lower level teams" and they did it in dominating fashion.
The defense hasn't given up a TD in 2 games and they are flying around like they were in the pre season. Charles Woodson is playing like a player looking for a DPOTY award.
On offense TJ Lang looked like he has some promise as the LT of the future and them line gave up 0 sacks. I don't care if it was the Browns, they are still pro's and still busted their tails to try and sack Rodgers and they couldn't. Grant looked good and Driver was, well Driver.
That game gave the Packers exactly what they needed, a shot to retake the NFC North lead if they beat the Vikings on Sunday. The team seems to be looking better in all 3 phases, I would like to see Jennings more involved in the offense, but I would gladly take the wins until he gets going (which should equal even more wins).
I expect a different result this time vs the Vikings and the Packers retake the division lead and start their roll to Miami.
QUOTE (66_Ray @ Oct 26 2009, 06:40 PM)
I believe Paul Brown / Bill Walsh invented the West Coast Offense while they were both with the Bengals. I'm almost positive about that.
They did name the Browns after him though.
They did name the Browns after him though.
Brown was hired to coach the Browns in '46, a position which he held thru '63 think. The Packers asked him his advice on who to hire and he advised a hot coordinater named Lombardi. He was offered the position as league commissioner and declined and Pete Rozelle accepted. In '67 he took a leap and became the owner/coach and G.M of the brand new Cinncinnati Bengals.(musta been Jerry Jones hero). He remained to 1974, as owner If I recall.
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