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mancl
Note: After I posted this I read a Press Gazette article that said teams have until the last game of the season to use money for this years cap.

The Packers have a long list of potential free agents, a ton of cap space and have until some time in November to use it up. Here is what I would do in the weeks ahead.

Signing Nick Collins is a priority 1A. I'd wait and see on how Bigby does tho his injury history makes me nervous.

Chillar is a starting LB for all intents and purposes, can play any position and is the best pass defender. Give that man a deal. If I had to make a decision today I'd tag and trade Kampman in the off season but I can wait and see.

Pickett has done a good job but he's 30 plus at a position that gets beat up a lot. I'd pass unless he wants to sign a pretty friendly deal. Based on his on field performance I'd sign Jolly but of course there are the legal issues and the questionable decision making. I don't have enough information on that to make a decision.

What to do with Clifton is a tough decision. LOT is the 2nd most important position on offense and you have to go with the assumption that you get immediate help in the draft. Getting a veteran who can at least play for a year is imperative. Is Clifton that guy? He thinks he can play another 2-3 years- I am not so sure he has anything left. On the other hand it's going to be tough to get even a stop gap player. I'd sign him for what would be in essense a 1 year deal. If he wants something not as friendly. I don't know.

Spitz is the best center and you can't replace everyone so I'd sign him. Colledge can be o.k. but if I was going to a power system I might let him walk and plug in Lang at this spot.
WB PackerFan
QUOTE (mancl @ Oct 24 2009, 08:26 PM) *
Note: After I posted this I read a Press Gazette article that said teams have until the last game of the season to use money for this years cap.

The Packers have a long list of potential free agents, a ton of cap space and have until some time in November to use it up. Here is what I would do in the weeks ahead.

Signing Nick Collins is a priority 1A. I'd wait and see on how Bigby does tho his injury history makes me nervous.

Chillar is a starting LB for all intents and purposes, can play any position and is the best pass defender. Give that man a deal. If I had to make a decision today I'd tag and trade Kampman in the off season but I can wait and see.

Pickett has done a good job but he's 30 plus at a position that gets beat up a lot. I'd pass unless he wants to sign a pretty friendly deal. Based on his on field performance I'd sign Jolly but of course there are the legal issues and the questionable decision making. I don't have enough information on that to make a decision.

What to do with Clifton is a tough decision. LOT is the 2nd most important position on offense and you have to go with the assumption that you get immediate help in the draft. Getting a veteran who can at least play for a year is imperative. Is Clifton that guy? He thinks he can play another 2-3 years- I am not so sure he has anything left. On the other hand it's going to be tough to get even a stop gap player. I'd sign him for what would be in essense a 1 year deal. If he wants something not as friendly. I don't know.

Spitz is the best center and you can't replace everyone so I'd sign him. Colledge can be o.k. but if I was going to a power system I might let him walk and plug in Lang at this spot.


TT has made Clifton the top choice whether he likes it or not. They have not 1 person at this point that shows they are even close to Cliftons level. Which is sad because at this stage Clifton is average. TT has grossly mis judged the LT position. A close second is Collins . I have confidence that Collins will be the next signing. However Clifton is the most important.
LawDog
Good topic. The Packers have key people to resign and have the money to do it. If TT is not willing to go outside to sign FA I have no idea what he is waiting to spend money his money on

1) Nick Collins
2) Bandon Chillar
3) Johnny Jolly
4) Daryn College
5) Ryan Pickett

Those are the five I would look at locking up.

Aaron Kampamn, and Chad Clifton will be on other teams next year. Kampman just does not fit in this new scheme and Cliffton is not the same player.

Atari Bigby must prove he can stay healthy to get a new contract. Jason Spitz I think we can upgrade here.
Vots
Well, ranking by priority...

1. Collins
2. Jolly
3. Pickett
4. Spitz
5. Colledge
6. Bigby
7. Kuhn

Collins, Jolly, and Pickett are must signs for me. Pickett coming back would be a good thing. NT is the most physically-demanding position in the 3-4. If you have Pickett and Raji, you keep your NT fresh.

I really can't believe I'm saying this, but you should try and resign Spitz and Colledge. Even though they're not good, the state of the OL will probably be even worse. We just can't seem to get a good lineman. So unless TT plans on selecting a lineman high in the draft and also signing a free agent, both should be signed. If chances are good that TT drafts a lineman in the 1st or 2nd or sign a free agent, then I think you let Colledge walk. Just cut your losses now.

I'm also in agreement that we need to see the whole season to see what Bigby has. He's an OKAY safety in my eyes. He may be over hyped from the SEA playoff game. But I'll let the season finish.

I like Kuhn, but he's at the end of the soup line this winter.

Let Clifton and Martin go. And franchise Kampman. Don't let Kampman go without something in return. Plus, if you don't franchise him, I think MIN will go after him. Remember they wanted Kampman when he was a restricted FA a few years ago, and GB matched their offer. This would be a disaster!
JASIII
QUOTE (Vots @ Oct 24 2009, 11:36 AM) *
Well, ranking by priority...

1. Collins
2. Jolly
3. Pickett
4. Spitz
5. Colledge
6. Bigby
7. Kuhn

Collins, Jolly, and Pickett are must signs for me. Pickett coming back would be a good thing. NT is the most physically-demanding position in the 3-4. If you have Pickett and Raji, you keep your NT fresh.

I really can't believe I'm saying this, but you should try and resign Spitz and Colledge. Even though they're not good, the state of the OL will probably be even worse. We just can't seem to get a good lineman. So unless TT plans on selecting a lineman high in the draft and also signing a free agent, both should be signed. If chances are good that TT drafts a lineman in the 1st or 2nd or sign a free agent, then I think you let Colledge walk. Just cut your losses now.

I'm also in agreement that we need to see the whole season to see what Bigby has. He's an OKAY safety in my eyes. He may be over hyped from the SEA playoff game. But I'll let the season finish.

I like Kuhn, but he's at the end of the soup line this winter.

Let Clifton and Martin go. And franchise Kampman. Don't let Kampman go without something in return. Plus, if you don't franchise him, I think MIN will go after him. Remember they wanted Kampman when he was a restricted FA a few years ago, and GB matched their offer. This would be a disaster!



I agree, except I'd put Chillar where you have Pickett and bump Kuhn off the list.
ricky
QUOTE (WB PackerFan @ Oct 24 2009, 09:03 PM) *
TT has made Clifton the top choice whether he likes it or not. They have not 1 person at this point that shows they are even close to Cliftons level. Which is sad because at this stage Clifton is average. TT has grossly mis judged the LT position. A close second is Collins . I have confidence that Collins will be the next signing. However Clifton is the most important.


I respectfully disagree. Clifton has been, in effect, replace by rookie T.J. Lang. That he is now on the the team is nice. But I see him in more of a back-up role, rather than a starter. After the plethora of penalties he caused last week, and his medical history, its time to sever ties with this warrior. I know its not easy, but it happens. Then again, he'll be a multi-millionaire in his early thirties, with a college degree. As long as he doesn't have any longstanding physical problems (no guarantee he doesn't) he is in the cat's bird seat.

I do agree that re-signing Collins is important, but only if the Packers can find a decent partner for him at safety. Because I believe Bigby is showing he was a "flash in the pan" player.
chunkymonkey
I agree with Ricky.

This should be Clifton's last year. I thought he was a huge health risk coming into this year, and he is proving that to be true. He's been a great player for the pack, but he is currently held together with duct tape.

A must signing before next season is at least one starting tackle.
Vots
QUOTE (JASIII @ Oct 24 2009, 11:51 AM) *
I agree, except I'd put Chillar where you have Pickett and bump Kuhn off the list.


I almost forgot. I completely skipped Chillar!

1. Collins
2. Jolly
3. Chillar
4. Pickett
5. Spitz
6. Colledge
7. Bigby
8. Kuhn

Fixed. And I'd try to sign Kuhn, but only if there's enough to go around after signing the higher priorities.
Skyshadow
The collective bargaining agreement (or lack thereof) next year could have a significant impact on this as well, at least as I understand it.
ammek
QUOTE (Vots @ Oct 24 2009, 05:36 PM) *
I really can't believe I'm saying this, but you should try and resign Spitz and Colledge. Even though they're not good, the state of the OL will probably be even worse. We just can't seem to get a good lineman.


Spitz is worth keeping. He's versatile, he's coachable, and at worst he is one of the better backups in the league. He makes Wells expendable, and gives Marlene Dietrich-Smith an extra year or two to step up. In effect, we would be paying Spitz the starter's salary and EDS as the backup, while hoping that the roles get reversed over time.

The only argument I can find for re-signing Colledge is "we haven't got anyone else". That's the worst reason imaginable and will set the line back even further in its flailing bid to achieve respectability. By the end of 2009 we should know if Lang has a future at tackle, and if he doesn't then the left guard position should be his. That of course necessitates bringing someone onto the team who is equipped to play left tackle. Where is Bruce Wilkerson when you need him?

I would re-sign Pickett if the price is right because Raji hasn't shown anything yet. Jolly I'm not sure about. DE is another position of need if he goes, but it seems that like many of these re-signings it is a default, "in lieu of someone better".
Skyshadow
QUOTE (ammek @ Oct 24 2009, 01:42 PM) *
I would re-sign Pickett if the price is right because Raji hasn't shown anything yet. Jolly I'm not sure about. DE is another position of need if he goes, but it seems that like many of these re-signings it is a default, "in lieu of someone better".

Jolly's status really depends on his legal situation, too -- didn't the prosecutor say he was going to re-file charges? Weird how that seems to be under the carpet...
pkrjones
QUOTE (Skyshadow @ Oct 24 2009, 03:56 PM) *
Jolly's status really depends on his legal situation, too -- didn't the prosecutor say he was going to re-file charges? Weird how that seems to be under the carpet...
I'm very surprised that over 2 months have passed and they haven't re-filed any charges, yet. I think there are holes in the case that they're trying to figure-out how to plug, and that eventually they'll just let it go - just my own personal opinion.

A lot of these possible re-signings will hinge on the players/agents perceived value on the open market. In an UN-capped '10 only Pickett would be an URFA, everyone else would be a restricted FA, limiting their leverage. TT needs to tender them at a high enough point to get adequate return should they sign elsewhere. Guys that TT should either extend now or tender to the highest level should be: Collins, Chillar, and Jolly. The other guys should get mid-level tenders: Spitz, Colledge, Bigby, and Kuhn. Collins and Jolly would be worth a #1 & #3 to some other team, so extending them would be the highest priority right now.

'10 Draft should be: #1 OT, #2 RB, #3 Safety, #4 OT, #5 CB, #6 RB, #7 OT
Ayt
Colledge is a good guard and definitely worth bringing back. Don't let his poor play at LT cloud his play at G.
goyotes22
QUOTE (Skyshadow @ Oct 24 2009, 03:56 PM) *
Jolly's status really depends on his legal situation, too -- didn't the prosecutor say he was going to re-file charges? Weird how that seems to be under the carpet...

This situation will probably be cleared up by the end of the year one way or the other. I wonder if the prosecutor would ever call Jolly's attorney and say charges weren't going to be filed or if he would just keep Jolly looking over his shoulder? I doubt the Packers wouldn't re-sign Jolly because he might be charged. Obviously, the longer it goes the less likely it is he will be re-indicted.

My list would have Collins, Jolly, Pickett, Chillar, College, Spitz and Bigby. There would seem to be little sense to invest a year in the 3-4 defense and then let a good portion of the players leave. I think the idea is that the longer they play in the system, the better they become. Big guys like Pickett and Jolly are hard to find so it would be a mistake to let them go IMO.
Pugger
QUOTE (chunkymonkey @ Oct 24 2009, 04:01 PM) *
I agree with Ricky.

This should be Clifton's last year. I thought he was a huge health risk coming into this year, and he is proving that to be true. He's been a great player for the pack, but he is currently held together with duct tape.

A must signing before next season is at least one starting tackle.


But what starting tackle can TT sign? I can't think of any team that will let a starting caliber tackle hit the open market these days. dry.gif And I doubt any team will trade away a starting tackle either unless you give that team a ridiculous deal like MN gave Dallas for Hershel Walker back in the day...
WB PackerFan
QUOTE (ricky @ Oct 25 2009, 01:34 AM) *
I respectfully disagree. Clifton has been, in effect, replace by rookie T.J. Lang. That he is now on the the team is nice. But I see him in more of a back-up role, rather than a starter. After the plethora of penalties he caused last week, and his medical history, its time to sever ties with this warrior. I know its not easy, but it happens. Then again, he'll be a multi-millionaire in his early thirties, with a college degree. As long as he doesn't have any longstanding physical problems (no guarantee he doesn't) he is in the cat's bird seat.

I do agree that re-signing Collins is important, but only if the Packers can find a decent partner for him at safety. Because I believe Bigby is showing he was a "flash in the pan" player.

Ricky I do see your point and I do agree with it. I guess the point I was trying to make was because of TT's lack of interest of addressing the line issues he has left the Packers with a large hole. If Lang works out I will eat my words however Clifton is the best option right now. Like I said that is sad because he isnt very good at this point of his career. This is a position of huge need for Packers and if the Lang experiment doesnt work out the Packers are in trouble at the most critical postion on the Offense. The Packers had numerous opprtunities to draft a true LT in the 1st couple rounds since TT has gooten here, He just doesnt value that position for some reason and it is starting to backfire on him.
chunkymonkey
QUOTE (Pugger @ Oct 25 2009, 12:38 AM) *
But what starting tackle can TT sign? I can't think of any team that will let a starting caliber tackle hit the open market these days. dry.gif And I doubt any team will trade away a starting tackle either unless you give that team a ridiculous deal like MN gave Dallas for Hershel Walker back in the day...


With all due respect, there were adequate tackles available this year. Tony Pashos was cut but the Jaguars after starting all 31 games with them, and was an adequate right tackle, cut for cap reasons as they had a younger guy who was cheaper. Could have stpped in a competed, and likely won, the right tackle spot. He was alos cut after the point where we had cut down to where we were weak at tackle. GBP4EVER was the first to post on him, and was right to bring up his name.

True, you most likely won't get Joe Thomas type talent, but there will be people capable of doing an adequate job at a reasonable price. every year there are cuts, and players available in off season trades that could fill starter roles. You may get a first round pick that could start, but if you end up with a pick in the low 20's, that may be problematic.

It may be that Lang and Barbre improve over the course of the year, and adequately fill the starting role. That would be great. I think putting faith in Clifton and spending a lot to resign him would be a problem because in my opinion he has lost his quickness and durability due to age and previous significant damage to his body. Likewise, I think throwing up one's hands and saying we are stuck with what we have is a bit pessimistic.
Vots
QUOTE (Ayt @ Oct 24 2009, 04:41 PM) *
Colledge is a good guard and definitely worth bringing back. Don't let his poor play at LT cloud his play at G.


His play LG was just as bad as his play at LT. Unless he finds the genie in the lamp, Colledge will eventually just become a journeyman backup.
Ayt
QUOTE (Vots @ Oct 25 2009, 03:22 PM) *
His play LG was just as bad as his play at LT. Unless he finds the genie in the lamp, Colledge will eventually just become a journeyman backup.


Yeah......no.
Vots
QUOTE (Ayt @ Oct 25 2009, 06:08 PM) *
Yeah......no.


Besides Allen Barbre, no one has played worse this season then Colledge. The only okay season I saw from Colledge has been the 2007 season when Clifton and Tauscher were still playing very well, and helped bookend the line.

I would have to say Colledge is the most over rated Packers lineman during the Thompson era.

Like someone already mentioned, and to which I agree with. The only reason I see the Packers keeping Colledge is if "we have nobody else".
OH Packer revisited
If College stays at LG then he's good. Its when they put him at LT that he looks lost. I'd sign him 10x over before I'd sign Spitz.

Clifton is probably done unless he takes a small contract offer. I think Pickett and Jolly should be resigned but likely 1 will walk.

One must factor in that it often takes at least 2 years to develop an OL or DL out of college. So if you think you're going to replace starters via the draft you should think again. You may be able to get 1 who is a starter from day 1.
VoiceofReason
We need to remember it takes two to play. Some of these guys will be much tougher to sign than others, and the price tage will be much higher. So, as always, I think the priority is to sign players that want to try to stay in GB and are reasonable in their demands. those are the guys you try to get locked up first.

Due to the CBA (discussed elshewhere) they should be able to sign Collins, Colledge, and SPitz because they won't have much negoatiating power at the end of the year if 2010 is an uncapped year. Investing money in Clifton's agind knees doesn't make sense to me, nor does investing a lot in Pickett. Jolly and Chillar would be big losses.
Vots
QUOTE (OH Packer revisited @ Oct 26 2009, 07:49 AM) *
If College stays at LG then he's good. Its when they put him at LT that he looks lost. I'd sign him 10x over before I'd sign Spitz.


I'm going to have to disagree with this one. While he may not be as bad at LT, Colledge has still been bad at LG. Throughout the season, I've watched him give up sacks, give up many pressures, and a few times he blocked the wrong guy and let blitzers go by untouched.

In 2006 he was promising. Didn't look that good compared to a veteran starter, but looked good for a rookie. In 2007 when he started most of the games, he looked solid. So did a lot of the other young lineman (most aren't on the team anymore), because of Tauscher and Clifton having great years. In 2008, he had a worse year then the one before. And going into 2009, he's had the worst year besides Barbre.

Colledge is a backup. He's the 2nd worst starting lineman on a line at the bottom of the barrel. I don't see Colledge coming back.
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