I am convinced that the Green Bay Packers will never win a Championship with Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy running this team. Against a bad team, they gave up sacks, had more than 100 yards in penalties, dropped passes. How long does it take to get things "cleaned up"? They are in trouble, and hopefully Mark Murphy will realize this.

I can not belive this fan base right now. I really cant.

Yes, the offense was poor. Yes, it's the same old same old.

But hold on. They won 26-0. They must be doing something right.

Yeah, they did some things right but face it they beat a doormat whose best receiver and QB were out-that is huge.

Most of Grant's yards came at the end of the game. Rodgers looked good. The TE and receivers looked good.

Absolutely awful display on special teams, offense and defense. How many shut outs and wins will we endure before Murphy rights this ship?

Well, you cannot base the quality of a team's play simply on the score. A good team would have put this game away early but the Packers squandered numerous opportunities due to sloppy play and mental errors.

You have to look at more than the "W" in my opinion, just as the coaches will do.

Thank you. The Packers won handily. Yes, they should have won by more (I'd suggest 38-0 would be more like it). However, I feel your pain. The Lions, though improved, are still bad. I also agree, the penalties are getting way out of hand. Especially since they were playing in Lambear, at home. Away, you expect the refs to give the benefit of the doubt to the home team. However, when the flags fly when the Packers are playing at home, something is wrong. And I really don't want to hear MM say "That will be addressed". Because if I read that quote, the next sound you hear will give a banshee shreik nightmates. Because, I swear, I will give a yell that will send shivers up he spines of everyone in a three state area, if not further.

I agree simply put I am appauld at Packer fans right now. Could have they played better . Hell yes. But they won by 26 points did NOT allow there oppent to score and yet we bitch. They dominated the way they should have and yet its not enough. How spoiled we have become. There is agenda's no doubt by certain posters to critique every move. If they dont play perfect they all come out, They beat a team they were supposed to beat bt 26 points and we have people her calling for coaches head. UNREAL!!

Of course they dominated. They played the Lions. Forget the score this week, and probably next week. Would the Packers have a chance of beating the Vikings, the Ravens, the Giants, the Saints, the Cardinals....those are just some of the teams that would kill us. Throw in at Chicago, at Pittsburgh...not good enough, and no improvement shown. I'm sorry if there are Packers fans who just want us to blow this team no matter what, and I have been a staunch supporter of TT and MM...but I am tired of the same old problems appearing, no veteran presence brought in to provide leadership, poor protection after all of that "self scouting", and the poor running game. Don't just accept this win as awesome because you need to factor in how they looked, and who they played. Be an intelligent fan. The Packers wouldn't have beaten half the teams in the NFL today.

I agree... No sense in Calling for heads or firings... I would like to see the penalities and sacks corrected... these things are correctable... I am not pissing and moaning...but these along with the drops are mental mistakes...Coaches and players BOTH.....Can correct these...maybe even go back to the goood ole days... and when they come in on Monday... Lets try some extra Windsprints and pushups and crab crawls for the guys giving up the sacks and dropping the ball and having penalities.. along with a few fines....or maybe a whole practice devoted to no Offsides...NO Holding...No SACKS... whatever to get the POINT across....

I agree entirely and am not happy about the performance. However, the game wasn't even close. The Packers beat the spread. That has to count for something.

I don't think the game told us anything we didn't know, eg, the Lions suck, the injured Lions suck even worse, the Packers give up a lot of sacks and can't run the football, Rodgers is gifted, penalties are out of hand, special teams penalties are a festering sore, and the defense is up and down but consistently makes plays.

You are missing the mark here. No Packer fan is disappointed that the kicked the Lions a$$. Many realize that Detroilet is awful, especially with some key players out. What people are disappointed in is the same weaknesses have been showing up every week. Just because the Lions sucked too bad to take advantage of them does not mean they were not there.

It was the sacks mainly.

I'd have thought that a bye week and a game against the Lions were an ideal combination for showing that these problems had at least been addressed, if not corrected. Did you see improvement? I'd love to say that I did, but I'd be lying.

McCarthy spends a lot of time saying "we'll get it corrected". Why should we believe that he will do as he says?

Totally agree about being disappointed about HOW WE PLAYED today. I was at the game, and it was a good performance by the D to shut them out, etc. But if the Green Bay Packers bring this same type of effort and performance to the field they will be EMBARRASSED by the Minnesota Vikings. No idea what's wrong with Clifton or Nelson but expect Jared Allen to get >3 sacks on TJ Lang.

Quite frankly I'm convinced they will never win with either TT & MM as well, and I used to be a supporter. Just as I used to be a supporter of Sherman. Eventually there HAS to be accountability for stupid penalties and average talent, and it's gotta start with the guys who assembed the team.

Like I have preached on this site before, we are PACKER fans. We should demand excellence because we have been, by definition, the most "excellent" team in NFL history with our 12 world titles. Same reason why anything less than a World Series won't satisfy any true Yankee fan. Some teams just should be held to a higher standard and Green Bay is one of them and I'm glad more fans are finally seeing that.

We did something that the Vikings and Steelers weren't able to do today. Dominate the Lions. Detroit led the Vikes at half time. And the Steelers let them within a touchdown late in the game.

Please. Be realistic and not just cynical.

I like this idea!

Of course there were lots of mistakes.
Too many.
But some people just will NEVER be happy.

26-0 against a team the
defending Super Bowl Champs beat by 8 last week.

I'm truly glad I don't know some posters here in person.
Not calling anyone in this thread out.

Nice win Pack!!

Hey, some are too pessimistic, some too optimistic. It all evens out.

Some of us want Championships, not ugly wins over the Lions.

1 for the last 42 years is not acceptable IMO when you live in a city called, "Titletown."

Can any of you imagine what would be going on in the city of New York if the Yankees only won once in 42 years? Again people, hold your team to a higher standard because they deserve to be, they're the greatest franchise in NFL history!

It was sloppy win aganist a terrible team.....Would not say it was a nice win. Not with 130 yds of penalties and red zone failures.

Yes they are correctable. The problem is the same things have been coming up week in and week out since MM has been here. Every monday he says hes going to address them and every sunday they happen again. This is not a one or two week issue. This has been happening since day 1 and MM is not getting through to them. This all falls square at MM's feet. MM needs to finally be held accountable for them!!!!!

One observation after 5 weeks. There are some absolutely horrible teams in the NFL. I don't recall having the League having 7 or 8 teams that are just putrid. Luckily we play another one next week.

These threads and calls for firings and peoples heads work better after losses. Not shut out wins.

In any case. Let's beat the Browns next week than get ready to "welcome" Brett back to Lambeau.

We have plenty of season left to enjoy and hopefully grab some great wins.

Oh, look who is Mr. positive this evening!!

I am guessing the final record will be the ultimate accountability for MM. 5 games does not a season make. No team plays the same week to week, except for the really bad ones. Do you think the Eagles are happy tonight? How about the Bengals? The Seahawks? The Jets? All these teams threw up stinkers today. That is the NFL. The Packers are not an elite team, but we are not amongst the dregs. Enjoy a shutout victory for a day or two.

Never underestimate the ability of certain people to take lemonade and make lemons, I suppose.

I'm perceived as being somewhat negative ( I call it realistic), but even I can't believe how upset people are about a total domination. Sure, it was the Lions and they were "supposed to" beat them...no...slaughter them. But if you know the NFL, you know that's easier said than done.

What team hasn't struggled against bad teams this year? And I wouldn't even call this win a struggle. Dominant defense, great ST play, and for the most part they moved the ball all day on offense. Yes, the penalties were a problem. Yes, red zone offense was a problem. But was it really? Let's remember they were up 17-0 early. Could it be that they played it safe in the red zone after that?? Ws there really a reason to try to force the ball into tight spots, or jsut keep racking up 3? There are no style points in the NFL.

Now they play Cleveland, and I'm sure some won't be happy if they don't win 59-0. That's not how it works.

We held their entire offense to 149 total yards. Our d was on fire, and showed alot of fire on the field. There was 4 false starts on clifton? He is rusty. But you have to applaud the defense, vs any team. The lions are not that bad. They gave the saints and vikings a run for a while.

A wise man named Kevin Wayne once told me that wins and losses is all that matters. I'll take a win and be happy. I was happy to hear that the coaching staff realizes they still have a ways to go. So - on to Cleveland.

An old adage: "It's the sign of a good team when they don't play well and still win"

I'm not viewing yesterdays win negatively (as stated on a different thread, I didnt personally see the game so my comments have to be viewed within that context) but in reading about the game et al, I personally was most dismayed about the following:

- continuation of the sack problem.
- continuation of the penalty problem.
- reinjury to Clifton.
- on a different note, failure of BAL to win their game vs. MN.

Coming off a bye week, I'd hoped the first two issues would have become "rearview mirror" items and the fact they didnt (against a recognized NFL low-life) has to be concerning. That coupled with Clifton's reinjury, give pause that we may have a chronic issue on our hands. Actually....perhaps it's already chronic...can we hope for a cure with the same cast of talent (?) - I'm referring to player talent.

I'm not to be confused with the "off with their heads" crowd that want TT and/or MM's head(s) raised from the highest pole. Thats not my percieved reason for or answer to everything that ails the Pack.

How is going 1 for 42 on MM and TT? You might as well bring up the Hadl trade, Dan Devine, Bart Starr, Forrest Gregg and Lindi Infante. At least save it until after the Vikings come to town, because thats the game that could decide the division and the season... and by that time, it won't matter one bit that they barely beat the Lions by only 26 points.... at least other than a "W" on the schedule.

I think one thing that's working against the Packers' efforts to improve on the penalties is that they've now developed a reputation for being a high penalty (ie. undisciplined) team. Refs are going to call penalties against the Packers that wouldn't be called against say the Steelers or the Patriots because we've got that stigma attached to us now. Not to say many of the penalties weren't legit, but anything boarderline is going to go against us most of the time now.

I agree, refs are only human. It's been said there's holding on every play. While that may be an exageration, it's true that if you look for holding you'll probably find it. Same with lining up on the line of scrimmage. Another judgement call by the refs. Some will never call it, some really look for it.

Look back to the press coverage days. Packer corners were called all the time for holding, illegal contact, etc. because refs were clearly looking for it.

A Lions team without Stafford and Calvin Johnson? If you want to be realistic.

How would the Packers played without Rodgers and Driver?

Trust me I do enjoy a Packers shutout win...I have our D in fantasy too haha.

While I agree 5 games do not make a season, these problems have been going on for a lot longer than 5 games. How many times do we hear MM say they will be cleaned up just to have them be even worse the following week. Im tired of seeing AR on his back, both due to the Oline AND AR holding the ball too long. Especially when MM is supposed to be a QB coach. What I am saying is Im tired of hearing "They will be cleaned up" I just want them to be. \

Wow is it really that bad??? Min and Chi both had tough games against Det, heck they even put up 27 points on NO. This was a division win, and yes there is still a lot to improve on. Still I don't get why everybody is bashing the team after a good game.

Ohhhhhhhhh....so when you were at or tuned into that game yesterday, you wanted a "Championship", not an "ugly win over the Lions". Well then I am pissed too, because they didn't deliver. God when will these guys just start winning Championships during the regular season. Slackers.

Let me know how your higher standard works for you.

Without Stafford and Johnson they are not bad I agree. They are HORRIBLE

I wasn't as down on the team after the game as many seemed to be, but reading quotes from MM's press conf was discouraging.

130 yards in penalties. MM says that other than the pre-snap variety, penalties are judgment calls.

Rodgers takes five more sacks against a team with a DL decimated by injuries. MM describes the protection as very good except for some communication problems.

Our running game is non-existent until the final 6 minutes of the game. MM describes the running game as productive.

He can't be this oblivious... can he?

I'm not exactly happy with the way they played, but for me, its pretty simple. If they make the same type of mistakes next week against Cleveland, I'm going to have some issues. Gotta get that stuff cleaned up before Minnesota.

I share your frustrations (and agree to a large extent on the "clean up" line), but what would you expect MM to say, "our players are subpar and don't take to coaching" or "I am in way over my head"? No way he could say those things. Unlike some posters I don't see the total incompetence of either TT or MM. Of course I also don't think either is in the upper echelon. However, if a change is going to be made you better be certain to make a better choice (ask the Bills, Washington, Tampa Bay and Cleveland about that) and it certainly cannot be made midseason. Therefore, my choice is to support the GM and coach of my favorite team. Realistically, this team is not all that bad compared to many others and there is a possibility of a playoff berth.

How would the Packers played without Rodgers and Driver?

If our line keeps playing the way they do we might find out sooner than later

We can play this game all day.

How would the Saints have played without Brees and Colston?
How would the Giants have played without Manning and Manningham?
How would the Patriots have played without Brady and Moss?
How would the Colts have played without Manning and Wayne?
How would the Falcons have played without Ryan and White?

You take the starting QB and #1/#2 WR from ANY team, and it is going to effect play. The fact is that not every team is unfortunate enough to have to live through injuries to those players.

I think that my biggest concerns are that the problems that were evident with this team in poor years (2006 and 2008) are still there. As much as I hate to admit it, I'm starting to think that the success of 2007 was due much more to Favre than I wanted it to be. O-Line is still a really big problem both in the running game and pass protection. Stupid rookie mistakes plague this team and put them into bad situations. Critical special teams mistakes seem to occur every single week, despite great individual performances. There's too much finesse on this team for my taste and not enough punishing football on either side of the ball. Simplistic and vanilla game plans that don't challenge opponents and certainly do not dictate the outcome of the game. The talent level of this team is very strong IMO, but they are under performing on a regular basis. I have seen things from both Ted Thompson that I happen to like very much as well as some things that I don't like at all and am frustrated to see over and over again. In most years, I'd probably say that I have no interest in seeing them make a change at the top and to try to ride it out. But, I think that both Thompson and McCarthy got ill-advised extensions following a miracle season that neither man had before and has yet to reproduce. Add to this fact, that there are some GREAT coaches (with multiple Super Bowl rings) out there who could likely do more with the talent on this team than the current regime, and I'm fine with seeing a change if they fail to make the playoffs this season. Whether or not Mark Murphy is the kind of guy who could even do that has yet to be determined, but I know that if I were in his shoes the status quo would simply not be enough to keep things as they are in Green Bay this offseason.

I would hope this team is much closer to a deep run in January after 4 years of Thomspon being GM than just the possibility of a playoff berth. That is my frustration. This may be one of the youngest teams in the league but at the same time its very old in some very key positions such as CB and LT. And there is not much if any depth at those positions to begin with. And at WR I am not sure Jones or Nelson is a legit #2 WR in this league after Driver hangs up #80. And I agree with Goyotes, is there anything better out there? A guy like Gruden (please no) or Cowher will want full control and you know Thompson and Murphy will not let that happen. What I would like McCarthy to say is that its on me for not cleaning the stuff up. The buck stops with me and I need to get the job done. I hate to go say this on this thread but the more and more I see McCarthy the more and more I fell that Favre masked many of his faults, from changing up at the line (plays and protections) and just also avoiding sacks. Will Rodgers learn this in the future? Hope so but much of that is also on the HC

2007 was a magical year but if it was just because of Favre why did the team go 4-12 and 8-8 the previous two seasons? Early in 2007 we got turnovers and faced teams at the right time = before they got their act together. It took more than just BF for that team to have the season it had. Grant began to run wild and we didn't have many injuries to key people. We beat NYG early - they struggled at the beginning of the season but improved each week. By January they were clicking on all cylinders and we lost to them in that championship game.

1. I dont think most of us are saying the sky is falling, or that we arent happy the Packers won. Is it not alright to express concern about certain aspects of the team, even though we managed to win? I fear this type of mentality is also MM's mentality. We won so everything will be ok next week, even though the same issues keep popping up.

2. Please stop replying to a post concerning the ineptitude of the Oline with "We shut out the Lions for the first time in X amount of years". These two things are not related at all! I cannot find one post in any thread compaining about anything on defense this week!

3. Why is it so bad to expect greatness out of your favorite team? I understand there is a lot of season left but looking at this team now we are a Wild Card team at best. Have we gotten that apathetic that we should just be happy at a CHANCE of making the playoffs?

4. Everyone who wants to credit Favre with the success of 2007 is entitled to that opinion. And yes I too think he did mask some things too. But remember noone had even heard of Greg Jennings or Ryan Grant heading into that season, injuries were a minimum, Clifton and Tauscher were healthy and 2 years younger, we were a run first team that all of a sudden was going 5 wide, and Jags was still the Oline coach.

5. Noone is getting fired mid season. TT and most likely MM will still be here next year. Philben and Campen will be the only casualties if any!

Robert Goulet- two thumbs up.

I will keep this reply to the odd numbered points and will start by stating that I don't necessarily disagree with your points. I just think there is perhaps a middle ground that many have missed, or don't want to see.
1. I think several posters, certainly not a majority, have a sky is falling mentality. Nobody said it was wrong to express concern after a win. However, I do think there was sort of a pack mentality about not seeing any good that came out of the game (IMO). Everyone saw the sacks, everyone knows it is a problem but the constant carping about it by fans will not get it "cleaned up". My guess is that MM sees the problem (whether he can fix it or not is the ultimate question).

3. It is not bad to expect greatness from your favorite team. I don't think realism is the same as apathy. There are very few "great" teams out there and I would guess that after week 16 those might not be the same teams as after week 6. Nobody would have predicted the Cardinals in the Super Bowl last year, so getting into the playoffs is not a bad goal. Heck, the Steelers won as a 6 seed. The league is meant to create parity so becoming consistently dominant is difficult to achieve. The Packers are one of many with the same goal.

5. I agree. However, you would have to admit there are a number of people that are vocal in their dislike of MM and TT. It almost borders on wanting the team to do badly so they are fired.

Chances are there will be a few more losses this year to vent about, so that is why I am enjoying the victory. I know all Green Bay fans are doing the same.

Went to the game this weekend and am in Milwaukee taking care of some business.

First, thanks to Bob in Dykesville for the great hospitality and great food!

Now to the OP and other people who think our team sucks. I am not sure how old you people are, but it very apparent you have no patience. Five years is too long, wa, wa, wa. CLUELESS!!! There are teams who have NEVER won a Super Bowl! Time for a reality check. Perhaps you need to grow up a bit. Here are a couple of reminders.

2007 - NFC Championship - New York Giants 23, Green Bay 20 (OT) (at Green Bay)