In football, like in most things, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Even accepting this "truth," it is hard to overstate the significance of Atari Bigby's absence, the last three games because of a sprained knee, to the Packers defense.
As if the lack of Bigby's physical presence resulting in WR and TE running without fear across and the middle of field was not obvious enough, the exposure of the Packers lack of anything remotely resembling adequate depth created a field day for opposing offensive coordinators. Rouse's ineptitude - poor angles, being-out-of-position, poor tackling -cost him his job as he was sent packing one week after being thrust into the starting lineup. Sadly, his replacement Derrick Martin was so incompetent that it had teammates and fans pining away for Aaron a week later as former Packer QB Brett Favre not only took the new kid's lunch money, he sent Derrick out to pick up his take out order and then ate it in front of him.
The problems did not stop there. Nick Collins was put on a leash and forced to play a very different game - limiting his impact as a play-maker and one of the few blue-chip players on the defense significantly.
An even bigger impact was how it forced Dom Capers, widely recognized as a defensive innovator to put most of his play book on the shelf and play vanilla defense to the level that it had fans wondering if perhaps Sanders hadn't been rehired and put in the booth to make the defensive calls - as QB's were treated like expensive China Dolls, 'look but don't touch'.
Bigby's teammates are trying to be politically correct in their on the record comments, but off the record they are not remotely restrained in their understanding of what a potential difference Bigby's return could make.
Even the restrained comments tell the story:
“Atari brings attitude back there. When you’re a receiver, you’ve got to watch him all the time. He’s not just trying to tackle you, he’s trying to do some damage to you. And having him in the box is like having another linebacker. So he brings a lot,” said Packer nose tackle Ryan Pickett.
“You don’t want to think one guy would make that big a difference, but you’ve got a guy who’s been in the defense the whole time, and then you bring in a guy who knows the defense for two weeks. That is a big difference no matter how anybody looks at it,” said nickel cornerback Tramon Williams. “Everybody keeps asking him, ‘How’s it feeling right now? How’s it feeling today?’ He worked out Monday and said he felt good, he came out Wednesday and everybody was asking him if he’s still feeling good, and he’s, ‘Yeah, it’s still feeling good.’"
The ever concise Nick Collins got the understatement award when the Packers other starting safety simply said, “We had to make some changes without him back there.”
While Bigby's return will NOT be the answer to all that ails the clearly struggling 2 and 2 Packers, a healthy Atari does make the Green Bay Packers a significantly more diverse and dangerous defense.
Break a leg Atari - figuratively, not literally - as in good luck or in your intimidating hitting style that keeps receivers' heads on a swivel trying to locate where that impending devastating strike is about to come from. You have been missed.
Full Version: Welcome Back Atari
QUOTE (Bruce @ Oct 15 2009, 12:35 PM) 
Sadly, his replacement Derrick Martin was so incompetent that it had teammates and fans pining away for Aaron a week later as former Packer QB Brett Favre not only took the new kid's lunch money, he sent Derrick out to pick up his take out order and then ate it in front of him.
Nice!
I never have agreed with you about Bigby and amn't about to start now. However, I would concede that a healthy Bigby, for all his limitations, would be an immense upgrade over Martin or Giordano.
Alas, I wouldn't count on it. Bigby is the archetype of the instinctive, headstrong player who is never quite the same after an injury. Be it for physical or psychological reasons, the old abandon can be hard to recover after so much time out. I don't have high hopes for Bigby, and I don't think he'll make much of a difference to the secondary, let alone to the team as a whole. I would not be shocked if he gets hurt again either.
Even if I'm wrong (and I hope I am), safety remains a vital need for the Packers. There is no depth at the position, and until that changes the Packers will continue to court trouble.
QUOTE (Bruce @ Oct 15 2009, 06:35 PM)
In football, like in most things, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Even accepting this "truth," it is hard to overstate the significance of Atari Bigby's absence, the last three games because of a sprained knee, to the Packers defense.
As if the lack of Bigby's physical presence resulting in WR and TE running without fear across and the middle of field was not obvious enough, the exposure of the Packers lack of anything remotely resembling adequate depth created a field day for opposing offensive coordinators. Rouse's ineptitude - poor angles, being-out-of-position, poor tackling -cost him his job as he was sent packing one week after being thrust into the starting lineup. Sadly, his replacement Derrick Martin was so incompetent that it had teammates and fans pining away for Aaron a week later as former Packer QB Brett Favre not only took the new kid's lunch money, he sent Derrick out to pick up his take out order and then ate it in front of him.
The problems did not stop there. Nick Collins was put on a leash and forced to play a very different game - limiting his impact as a play-maker and one of the few blue-chip players on the defense significantly.
An even bigger impact was how it forced Dom Capers, widely recognized as a defensive innovator to put most of his play book on the shelf and play vanilla defense to the level that it had fans wondering if perhaps Sanders hadn't been rehired and put in the booth to make the defensive calls - as QB's were treated like expensive China Dolls, 'look but don't touch'.
Bigby's teammates are trying to be politically correct in their on the record comments, but off the record they are not remotely restrained in their understanding of what a potential difference Bigby's return could make.
Even the restrained comments tell the story:
“Atari brings attitude back there. When you’re a receiver, you’ve got to watch him all the time. He’s not just trying to tackle you, he’s trying to do some damage to you. And having him in the box is like having another linebacker. So he brings a lot,” said Packer nose tackle Ryan Pickett.
“You don’t want to think one guy would make that big a difference, but you’ve got a guy who’s been in the defense the whole time, and then you bring in a guy who knows the defense for two weeks. That is a big difference no matter how anybody looks at it,” said nickel cornerback Tramon Williams. “Everybody keeps asking him, ‘How’s it feeling right now? How’s it feeling today?’ He worked out Monday and said he felt good, he came out Wednesday and everybody was asking him if he’s still feeling good, and he’s, ‘Yeah, it’s still feeling good.’"
The ever concise Nick Collins got the understatement award when the Packers other starting safety simply said, “We had to make some changes without him back there.”
While Bigby's return will NOT be the answer to all that ails the clearly struggling 2 and 2 Packers, a healthy Atari does make the Green Bay Packers a significantly more diverse and dangerous defense.
Break a leg Atari - figuratively, not literally - as in good luck or in your intimidating hitting style that keeps receivers' heads on a swivel trying to locate where that impending devastating strike is about to come from. You have been missed.
As if the lack of Bigby's physical presence resulting in WR and TE running without fear across and the middle of field was not obvious enough, the exposure of the Packers lack of anything remotely resembling adequate depth created a field day for opposing offensive coordinators. Rouse's ineptitude - poor angles, being-out-of-position, poor tackling -cost him his job as he was sent packing one week after being thrust into the starting lineup. Sadly, his replacement Derrick Martin was so incompetent that it had teammates and fans pining away for Aaron a week later as former Packer QB Brett Favre not only took the new kid's lunch money, he sent Derrick out to pick up his take out order and then ate it in front of him.
The problems did not stop there. Nick Collins was put on a leash and forced to play a very different game - limiting his impact as a play-maker and one of the few blue-chip players on the defense significantly.
An even bigger impact was how it forced Dom Capers, widely recognized as a defensive innovator to put most of his play book on the shelf and play vanilla defense to the level that it had fans wondering if perhaps Sanders hadn't been rehired and put in the booth to make the defensive calls - as QB's were treated like expensive China Dolls, 'look but don't touch'.
Bigby's teammates are trying to be politically correct in their on the record comments, but off the record they are not remotely restrained in their understanding of what a potential difference Bigby's return could make.
Even the restrained comments tell the story:
“Atari brings attitude back there. When you’re a receiver, you’ve got to watch him all the time. He’s not just trying to tackle you, he’s trying to do some damage to you. And having him in the box is like having another linebacker. So he brings a lot,” said Packer nose tackle Ryan Pickett.
“You don’t want to think one guy would make that big a difference, but you’ve got a guy who’s been in the defense the whole time, and then you bring in a guy who knows the defense for two weeks. That is a big difference no matter how anybody looks at it,” said nickel cornerback Tramon Williams. “Everybody keeps asking him, ‘How’s it feeling right now? How’s it feeling today?’ He worked out Monday and said he felt good, he came out Wednesday and everybody was asking him if he’s still feeling good, and he’s, ‘Yeah, it’s still feeling good.’"
The ever concise Nick Collins got the understatement award when the Packers other starting safety simply said, “We had to make some changes without him back there.”
While Bigby's return will NOT be the answer to all that ails the clearly struggling 2 and 2 Packers, a healthy Atari does make the Green Bay Packers a significantly more diverse and dangerous defense.
Break a leg Atari - figuratively, not literally - as in good luck or in your intimidating hitting style that keeps receivers' heads on a swivel trying to locate where that impending devastating strike is about to come from. You have been missed.
Bruce I have always been in your corner on this subject. Bigby gets so many accolades from his peer group. I will take their opinions anyday. When All Pro Players such as Woodson,Collins and Harris sing such high praises of him, states it all. Now Mr. Bigby needs to stay on the field.
QUOTE (WB PackerFan @ Oct 15 2009, 07:27 AM)
Bruce I have always been in your corner on this subject. Bigby gets so many accolades from his peer group. I will take their opinions anyday. When All Pro Players such as Woodson,Collins and Harris sing such high praises of him, states it all. Now Mr. Bigby needs to stay on the field.
Bigby is the Packers version of Indy's Bob Sanders. These guys hit hard and it takes a toll on them. While he is healthy the Packers had better be addressing the backup position.
The over/under for Bigby's next injury is 4 games. I'll take the under. I so hope that I am wrong cuz I do like Atari and posted a similar viewpoint as Bruce has in another thread regarding how handcuffed Capers has been with a weak backend of our def.
QUOTE (ammek @ Oct 15 2009, 08:27 AM)
Nice!
I never have agreed with you about Bigby and amn't about to start now. However, I would concede that a healthy Bigby, for all his limitations, would be an immense upgrade over Martin or Giordano.
Alas, I wouldn't count on it. Bigby is the archetype of the instinctive, headstrong player who is never quite the same after an injury. Be it for physical or psychological reasons, the old abandon can be hard to recover after so much time out. I don't have high hopes for Bigby, and I don't think he'll make much of a difference to the secondary, let alone to the team as a whole. I would not be shocked if he gets hurt again either.
Even if I'm wrong (and I hope I am), safety remains a vital need for the Packers. There is no depth at the position, and until that changes the Packers will continue to court trouble.
I never have agreed with you about Bigby and amn't about to start now. However, I would concede that a healthy Bigby, for all his limitations, would be an immense upgrade over Martin or Giordano.
Alas, I wouldn't count on it. Bigby is the archetype of the instinctive, headstrong player who is never quite the same after an injury. Be it for physical or psychological reasons, the old abandon can be hard to recover after so much time out. I don't have high hopes for Bigby, and I don't think he'll make much of a difference to the secondary, let alone to the team as a whole. I would not be shocked if he gets hurt again either.
Even if I'm wrong (and I hope I am), safety remains a vital need for the Packers. There is no depth at the position, and until that changes the Packers will continue to court trouble.
That's all fair enough, but I wonder if it'll be as much a placebo effect as anything. Maybe just having a guy you're comfortable with out there will help Collins and the other DBs play a certain way, give them a mental edge, or at least some mental neutrality, as opposed to a negative mental effect with Martin/ Rouse/ Giordano.
My gut tells me the rigors of the NFL expose everyone eventually, but maybe for these next few important weeks it'll be enough to get them by.
I agree with your last statement. They had two chances to draft blue chip safety prospects (kenny phillips and reggie williams) and they passed. No one to blame but themselves.
You certainly will get no argument from me on this front. All the talent in the World does not help a football team if it cannot get on the field, so of course Bigby and this defense's success is dependent being able to play up to potential - you cannot do that from the training table or on the sidelines.
Having said that a healthy Bigby significantly improves this football team.
"It helps us out, because of course again he knows the defense, in and out," cornerback Charles Woodson said. "Just putting him back in this week, we haven't missed a beat as far as making checks, making calls. We can do everything with him in the game, we look forward to having him back."
And Mike McCarthy:
I'll just say this. When Atari is in the game, on the field, there's definitely a different life to our defense. You could just see that yesterday at practice. He's been here since day one, so the communication aspect of the safety position is very important, so it's good to have him back there. But his personality, his physicalness in the run game... it's definitely our best set of safeties and they definitely play off of each other.
Having said that a healthy Bigby significantly improves this football team.
"It helps us out, because of course again he knows the defense, in and out," cornerback Charles Woodson said. "Just putting him back in this week, we haven't missed a beat as far as making checks, making calls. We can do everything with him in the game, we look forward to having him back."
And Mike McCarthy:
I'll just say this. When Atari is in the game, on the field, there's definitely a different life to our defense. You could just see that yesterday at practice. He's been here since day one, so the communication aspect of the safety position is very important, so it's good to have him back there. But his personality, his physicalness in the run game... it's definitely our best set of safeties and they definitely play off of each other.
...so let's get that contract extended while he's still 'cheap'
QUOTE (DaveKenya @ Oct 16 2009, 06:20 PM)
...so let's get that contract extended while he's still 'cheap'
Exactly, give him a "Grant" like deal! Right now!
20 bucks Bigby gets injured again vs the Lions. He hasn't been healthy since '07 so I don't see how he is now.
QUOTE (PackerJB @ Oct 17 2009, 03:02 PM)
20 bucks Bigby gets injured again vs the Lions. He hasn't been healthy since '07 so I don't see how he is now.
tempting bet....
Mike McCarthy certainly noticed:
"I think it really helps our defense play at a higher tempo. Just really just guys flying around and I think we're getting better and better week in and week out defensively. It was nice to have Atari back. He definitely showed up today and had the big interception there in the end zone."
"I think it really helps our defense play at a higher tempo. Just really just guys flying around and I think we're getting better and better week in and week out defensively. It was nice to have Atari back. He definitely showed up today and had the big interception there in the end zone."
QUOTE (PackerJB @ Oct 17 2009, 03:02 PM)
20 bucks Bigby gets injured again vs the Lions. He hasn't been healthy since '07 so I don't see how he is now.
You would have lost that bet had I taken you up on it...
QUOTE (R man @ Oct 19 2009, 06:00 PM)
You would have lost that bet had I taken you up on it...
Yes I know! lol Good for him though. He needs to keep playing and play well for the Packers D to have any success. It was great to see him back.
QUOTE (PackerJB @ Oct 19 2009, 07:55 AM)
Yes I know! lol Good for him though. He needs to keep playing and play well for the Packers D to have any success. It was great to see him back.
I was just kidding
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