http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/DMN-Sh...de-Peppers.html

We've got huge needs in the OL, so Im not sure Peppers would be a big priority at this point.

On a entirely different issue, This may be the last opportunity to trade Kampman for a pick or probably lose him to FA. He looks uncomfortable out there, and IMO he wont be coming back.

I really like Aaron Kampman the person and the player but a Kampman for Peppers trade just makes sense.

I get the distinct impression that Kampman does not like to play in the new 3-4 scheme and won't re-sign here in 2010 because of that.

True Max, but Im not so sure we arent trading a out of place OLB for a out of place OLB and more money. Peppers is a great athlete, but would we have the same problems with Peppers as we do with Kampman? Not sure Peppers wants to play DE.

Valid Point - I worry we lose Kampman with no return (other than a compensatory pick)

I have been on board since it the idea was brought up months ago. Agree AK is a great person and player, he is just not a fit for OLB. It would be the best for the team and AK to move on before the deadline. I think Peppers would do some great things as an OLB, but sadly I doubt we will ever find out...

They won't lose Kampman without compensation. Franchise him and then they can decide. Plus, after 4 games I am not ready to throw in the towel with him at OLB because of a couple of missed assignments in coverage.

He has not been terrible in coverage, my concern is that he is not getting to the QB when he does rush....

Peppers might be just what the doctor ordered, cover a lot of our flaws back up.

Ok Peppers would need to play LB also because he does not have the size to play DE in the 3-4 plus he would need to learn the 3-4 and teh defense. By that time the season is over and he has not done much. Then you will have to either pay him or let him go as a FA without really knowing what type of player he will be.

Kampman is a great player, but he's not elite. I know what the numbers say, but Kampman can not dominate a game like a Jared Allen or Julius Peppers can. He gets his numbers because of effort, motor and knowing his craft, not really because he's an exceptional athlete. Peppers, on the other hand, is an exceptional athlete.

He may cost more, but he's worth it, IMO.

Kampman wants to be in a 43 and is stuck in a 34.
Peppers wants to be in a 34 and is stuck in a 43.

No brainer. Whats to lose? Maybe Peppers flops. So what? Kampman is flopping right now and will be gone next year anyway.

EDIT: In response to some of the prior posts...no, Peppers wouldn't play DE in a 34. He'd play OLB. That's what he wants.

Well Capers hasn't rushed him all that much, and when he has, there is no one else on the line applying pressure.

I don't understand. I thought that Capers was going to play to the players strengths. Why don't they let Kampman play with his hand down on occasion? They don't necessarily have to have him rush on all those occasions. But it would at least utilize his strengths sometimes.

I did see him get to Favre at least once and get him to the ground, but for the most part he looked uncomfortable to me.

You know, another guy mentioned in that article as being on the trading block is Steven Jackson. I think that could be a really great grab for the Packers. He's only 26, and the guy is immensely talented - and big. And not only can he run, but he can be used as a receiver, too.

The reason I like Jackson is because he has the power to knock a guy back, and the moves to make people miss. He's one of those guys that can make something about of nothing.

True, our offensive line will still be garbage, but Jackson will still be able to put some runs together. The Rams line blows, and he's still putting up some numbers - despite having no passing game to take the pressure off. I think he could bring a lot to the Packers. The running game would instantly be better with a guy that can make something out of nothing. They'd have a great guy for screens and dump offs.

Because of all that, it could actually make the offensive line a bit better. Teams won't be able to sell out against the pass on us.

Boy, the more I think about it, the more I love it.

Trouble with Jackson is he's their one offensive weapon -- there's no way they trade him for anything we'd be willing to give up.

How about Grant, Bishop (since they don't seem to want to use him here) and a 3rd rounder?

That team has got to be in full-scale rebuilding mode now. Teams will usually trade away their superstars to rebuild when they're in that situation. By the time the Rams are competitive again, Jackson will be nearing the end of his rope.

I've said since the beginning of this Kampman-to-play-LB talk began that he would not be an effective pass rusher. Sure, he's pretty stout against the run, but aside from that, he's a fish out of water.

Quite simply, Kampman has very little burst. Coming from the DE spot, he doesn't need it and can make up for it with a good size/speed combo and a fantastic motor and technique. That's what made Kampman - Kampman. He's not Joey Porter or DeMarcus Ware or James Harrison that can just go from the LB spot to the backfield in a blink of an eye. And ya know what, that's not a knock on Kampman, few can do what those guys do. But to run a 3-4, effectively, you need those guys.

And if Capers isn't blitzing Kampman and dropping him into coverage, then that's just another downfall of having Kampman in there.

At this point, I'm not sure I'd want Peppers, either. I think he's a bit overrated (yes, I've change my tune on that). I'd be happy with a high draft pick and putting Chillar where Kampman is and start Matthews and just let the dogs loose with our linebackers.

I agree with you Heat - Peppers might be a bit overrated. I think he has all the talent in the world, but he has questionable work ethics. If he's upset and doesn't want to play, then he's going to phone it in on the field. I wouldn't be willing to give up anything more than a simple Kampman-for-Peppers trade. It's a fair deal for both teams. No reason that either team should sweeten the pot with draft picks or other players.

Agreed.

I also don't like the idea of franchising Kampman and trading him. That just lowers his value even more. If a team can't sign him to a long-term contract, then he just becomes a one year rental that they just paid 10 million for.

Actually, after reading that article, Lombardi brings up the possibility of dangling a 2nd round out there. So I ask, why trade Kampman? At least, why trade him for Peppers?

I think the Packers regardless will be picking at the mid, maybe 3/4 of the bottom of the 2nd round (maybe being optimistic here)

Why not trade your 2nd rounder for Peppers, and then trade Kampman to another team for a higher 2nd round, maybe low first round pick? After all, Kampman may very well command more value to a a team based on his lower salary - and his lower penchant for being a headcase than Peppers.

Might be a bit involved, but it could work.

Kampman isnt the only problem.

As I mentioned when we went to the 3/4, Hawk and Barnett arent good fits for this defense in the middle either. They arent big enough at the point of attack. At the quarter mark of the season they have a combined:

0 sacks, 0 interceptions, 0 forced fumbles, 0 fumbles recovered.


Granted Barnett is coming off an injury, but if the strength of the 3/4 is the linebackers, we aren't getting it done.

I still vote NO on Peppers - don't think he's worth $1 Million/game, to anybody!

We're already having trouble getting Chillar, Bishop & Matthews onto the field, don't want to add to the LB Depth chart.

On the trading block for picks and/or proven, experienced OL talent: Kampy, Barnett, Hawk, James Jones, Donald Lee, Corey Hall, B-Jax and/or Wells.

Side Note: If the Packer's 2010 1st round pick isn't a 320lb., former tap-dancer who plays "angry" and eats nails for breakfast while growling Left Tackle I'll be really, really PO'd.

Mind boggling number



That's funny

Ditto!

Kampman or Hawk have the most value. Not sure if you deal Wells at this point, depth on the OL is too critical.

I beleive Kampman was the only player that actually got a hiy pf Favre, plus 5 Tackles (and or assisted). Allan (270) out weighs Kampman by like 5 lbs-Kampamn should be playing on the line...period! NOTE: PACKERS SHOULD EMPLOY THE 4-3 45% OF THE TIMES with Kampan rushing the QB, no other LBR has shoen equal ability in my opinion!.

It's kind of an odd situation, since I thought the OLB slot that Kampman plays rushes on nearly every play. That doesn't seem to be the case with us for some reason. Am I wrong on that?

I may be wrong, but I assumed that on early, running downs that the Packers would use the 4-3 and slide the DE (Jolly) inside, and slide Kampy into the DE spot. I haven't seen that formation used, it's been almost a straight 3-4 w/ Kampy either with contain duty or dropping back.

I also assumed that of the blitz packages that he would be used 33-50% of the time, in combination w/ an ILB or DB... that doesn't appear to be the mix, either. I think coming from the standing-up position Kampy loses some of his burst and really relied on the 3 point stance to explode from... he needs to be traded to recoup something from him - he'll be gone after this season to a 4-3 team that will use him.

This would make the most sense. They need receivers, we could throw James Jones their way also. You know what you are getting with Jackson, with Peppers it is pretty much an unknown. Merriman I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole, steroids made him what he was.

Peppers hasn't played great in a few seasons now. I'd pass.

This is pure fantasy, since it would never happen, but imagine this in Week 6:

LT: Chad Clifton
RT: Mark Tauscher
RB: Steven Jackson (Traded: Some combination of Ryan Grant/James Jones/Desmond Bishop and a 2nd/3rd this year/next year)
OLB: Julius Peppers (Traded: Aaron Kampman)

It's actually theoretically possible, but no way that TT would pull the trigger on all of that. Could you imagine an offense with Aaron Rodgers, Greg Jennings, Donald Driver, Jermichael Finley and Steven Jackson, with Clifton and Tauscher back to bookend the o-line and all of our interior guys back in position? Oh man.

I'd love the idea of acquiring Steven Jackson if he were on the trading block. I imagine he'd be quite expensive, though. He's arguably the 2nd best RB in the league, and his ability in the passing game would help our team tremendously.

But how do they sell that Rams' fans? He's about the only draw they've got. But he'll be washed up before they're any good again.

If the Packers trade Aaron Kampman, they need to get an all-star player back in return. I could see them going with an Aaron Kampman for Steven Jackson trade, but if it were me. . . I'd call up Washington and try to swing a trade for LaRon Landry instead. That would solve two huge problems for the Packers. Kampman would no longer be playing out of position and they would have a legitimate playmaking safety back there with Nick Collins. Landry's contract is big, but not unreasonable. I'd go for something like that. But it needs to be a great player and not just a draft pick.

IF they were to trade Kampman Landry would be a good swap. Plus I can see Snyderbrenner giving AK the $$$ he deserves so all woudl be happy.

Bringing Landry into this discussion highlights how poor the S play for GB has been since the CHI game. Do they miss Bigby in the 3-4 that much? They have not blitzed much since he's been out and blitzing is what makes the 3-4 click.

I think that the lack of depth at safety is one of the key problems with the defense right now. Collins is trying to cover too much field and there's no safety help behind the CBs. I was hoping to see more man-to-man press coverage on blitzes as well. We know our guys can do it, but safety play has to be there over the top. I think that the defense has been geared to stop the run since Cedric Benson gashed them 3 weeks ago.

Bigby won't change much when he comes back. As it can be seen we need a good cover saftey and that is not Bigby. Bigby is a guy who roams and hits who ever gets the ball. Bigby might be a ok 4-3 saftey where he can roam and hit guys but the 3-4 you need to be a better cover saftey then a hitter.

We know you mentioned it. That doesn't make you even close to right. No one plays great big ILBs. You are incorrect. And your stats are meaningless for reasons I won't bother to explain.

Its not hard to understand. Playing a 2 point and 3 point stance is different. Uses different muscle groups and skeletal leverage. Switching it up isn't going to play to any strengths at all, and would just hinder the transition.

Oh really? Care to provide some numbers to go with that "all that much" statement? Because I'm calling BS.

LOL!!!!!Please explain. I'm dying to hear how great Hawk and Barnett are, and how 0 sacks, 0 interceptions, 0 forced fumbles, 0 fumbles recovered is"meaningless".

Back to the topic of finding someone before the trade deadline. . . Doing a quick look at teams around the league, these are some of the players that I'd be targeting for some sort of trade before the deadline. This is not necessarily a player-for-player swap, but I'd be fine with that if the value was either even or in the Packers favor.

01. FS: LaRon Landry - Washington Redskins (6'0" - 210 lbs. 24 years old) - Would solve the safety issue opposite Nick Collins. Don't care which guy moves over to SS, but those two would lead the defensive backfield for the next five years easy.

02. RB: Steven Jackson - St. Louis Rams (6'2" - 236 lbs. 26 years old) - Big, bruising back who would compliment Grant and add both power and speed to the offense. A little concerned about his wear-and-tear, but he's still young and has been extremely productive in St. Louis. I'd be a bit worried about the contract that he's certainly going to want.

03. Josh Cribbs - Cleveland Browns (6'1" - 215 lbs. 26 years old) - One of the top kick/punt returners in the league has been embattled in a nasty contract issue with the Browns management since Mangini got there. Despite his obvious talent and value, the Browns seem to be blowing things up and rebuilding. That might mean that a great player like Cribbs who is pretty much one-dimensional, could possibly be had when he otherwise would not have been available. It'll be costly and he'll need a new contract, but considering how much he'd bring to both kick and punt returns, his young age and Blackmon's injury I'd certainly look into the possibility.

04. OT: Tony Ugoh - Indianapolis Colts (6'5" - 305 lbs. 25 years old) - Athletic and talented young LT who is extremely raw. Began career as a starter, but was beaten out this season, demoted and ended up in the dog-house. While he's not the greatest option for LT, he's a better option than anyone on the team. Has potential for long-term development, and it looks like the Colts have decided to move on without him.

Any others that you can think of?

I understand 3 & 4. But why would Washington and St. Louis want to get rid of Landry and Jackson? Not arguing, I just don't know what the upside is for them.

Kampman for Landry would be the deal most likely. Unless I'm mistaken, Washington has had a dismal pash rush and might be willing to make this deal to improve that.

Jackson might be on the block in order for St. Louis to stockpile some youth/draft picks. They're in full on rebuilding mode. By the time that team is worth a damn again, Jackson's going to be too old to help much.

Thank you sinatra for chiming in on those questions.

With Washington it would most likely be a Landry-for-Kampman swap. Also, Landry has had disagreements with management since Gibbs retired and Zorn moved into the HC job, so they might want to move him before things get ugly with continued losses.

With Steven Jackson, it might end up being a situation where they move him before he can get hurt. They are going nowhere right now and they might not want to meet his contract demands. They would basically be conceding that they are rebuilding and make the effort to get younger by taking what they can get at his maximum value before risking an injury this season that pushes his value down. I don't know what it would be in terms of cost or contract to acquire him. . . but I could see them making some sort of deal if that is their current mindset. Also, they have a new coach and even superstars get traded when they no longer fit into the team's plans for one reason or another (see also Brett Favre, Tony Gonzales, Jason Taylor, Hugh Douglas, Braylon Edwards, Thomas Jones and now possibly Aaron Kampman.)

No numbers, just from watching the games. How many times did Kampman aplly pressure on Favre? Once, twice. He seemed to be in coverage a whole lot more.

i like the Cribbs idea. he's really fast and shifty, and was a QB in college. we could use him on returns obviously, but we could get tricky with him on O, make him our wildcat type, or double passes and reverses from the slot. he could be our devin hester (if devin hester were still good). not sure what we'd have to give up for him.

Ugoh, in my opinion, is pants. he doesn't seem to be that smart or athletic, and even when all the announcers were loving him i thought he was basically holding every time. but hey, that might be an improvement at this point. as i recall, Indy traded back into the 1st to pick him a couple of years ago, so they'd probably be looking for a high pick in return. no deal.

i wish trades were a little more common in the NFL.

I did notice that Hawk was a little more aggresive against Minny, whereas against the Rams he was aweful!! There were a few times where he would wait for Jackson to come to him instead of aiming for those hips and going right through him. Hawk is vulnerable when it comes to these shake and bake guys, and I mean tentative, he looks like he is slow motion sometimes.

Thomas Jones is a great example of a guy that was thrown out to pasture and has excelled cause of it. I worry about these Ahman Green guys that like to put the hurt into you, they don't last too long, same for Shaun Alexander and Larry Johnson. I think Jackson still has three good years in him. He has been banged up the last two years, but he looked fast and strong against us. The Rams should trade this guy, the fans would understand that they need to rebuild.

I watched Steven Jackson pretty close yesterday - he didn't appear to be playing very hard - put the ball on the ground and didn't catch a ball at the goal line

Not saying he wouldn't be an upgrade at RB but might not be worth the financial investment

I posted this in the "Bush" thread, but it's more appropriate here.

Would it help both the Packers and Titans to consumate a trade? Jarrett Bush for Troy Kropog?

The Titans desperately NEED CB's, and Kropog might be a decent LT prospect. Rated lower in the draft than Meredith on some sites, but picked higher. Needs upper body strengthening, so not sure if he'd be of any help in '09 - but might be a possible long-term-LT prospect.

This move may leave us pretty thin at CB, but a back-up CB for LT prospect seems to make some sense to me.

Philip Daniels may be lost for the year. Will this cause any interest on Kampman from the Redskins? Washing certainly likes to make high-profile moves and they are a team that will pay full price for a player they want. Landry, Portis, Draft picks? What would it take?