I have bitched about this since Thompson has been hired even some when Wolf was here. This is not meant to be a thread to bash TT. Even dating back to Wolf, I have never had the feeling that we have seriously valued good offensive lineman. We try to take sixth and seventh rounders and hope they turn in to something-- some have, most have not, but we seem to put no value in it. It also could be that Campen cannot cut it as a coach. Beightol was our last good line coach. I personally think we do not have one decent lineman at this point. Clifton may be close but over the hill. Colledge who is touted as the best shows me nothing. Do you think if Favre were still here, he would have any luck behind this joke of a line. Adrian Peterson would be another Whisper Goodman behind our line. It is all a waste of time and talent until we start getting serious about our O-Line. We will never trade for one, or sign one in FA so we have to hope that three years from now that some washout or ex-bartender we sign now turns in to something. By then A Rodgers will be crippled, Ryan Grant will be successful(for another team) and our receivers will be gone. It pisses me off and if can see it and you can see it, why can't the dumb asses that are in charge figure it out.

I share your frustration. You can't make a steak out of Spam.

I disagree on Wolf. He brought in some good players.

We need serious help on the o line. TT's philosophy on no FA and draft picks did not work.

Why is he so against free agency? His 2 high profile signings Woodson and Chillar have worked out very well.

Since he got the team rebuilt, TT has been going after players to address our most glaring needs -- it's why Matthews was in green and gold ripping that ball out of Peterson's arms.

The trouble with o-line guys is that the very top-flight guys, I'm talking the studs at the position here, are rare; they're expensive in FA if you can even find them, and in the draft you'll only see one or two who'll be gone by the 10th or 11th pick. After that, there's a dropoff where the next-level guys are that generally lasts into the later rounds of the draft.

What TT's tried to do with o-line is what he's done successfully elsewhere -- keep new guys coming in to develop and compete with the existing guys. He picks guys from this second-tier pool every year.

I still can't believe the o-line is really this bad. Even if TT can't pick o-line talent, you'd think someone in the scouting organization would be able to (TT doesn't make these decisions in a vacuum, contrary to what some may believe). So I'm stumped.

What I can not buy as easily as some, is that TT drafted the great Seahawk players on Offensive Line, Logic tells me if you have a knack for finding good offensive linemen you just don't all of a sudden lose it. If you want a great wide out TT is your guy, you want a linemen go ask someone else. As much preparation as TT does the Packers come up short.

I'd still like to give Lang a shot. Let him learn on the job. Can he be any worse? At least there would be some upside. Didn't we start both Tauscher and Clifton as rookies?

Lang is a guard. I thought it was evident last night. Does not have the build or the feet of a LT.

MM knows it also. Look at the plays he called when Lang came in. And when they did pass, Allen was triple teamed.

TT made a big mistake in thinking he could get by with a 33 year old, oft injured LT for the entire season. With just Colledge to back him up.

And it will double backfire on him if if gets AR hurt. Because I do not like the depth at QB either.

I don't think the guys he has drafted are that bad. I think there are a couple players in the bunch. I think they're failing because of the coaching staff. Campen is awful, has been awful and will continue to be awful. McCarthy is a QB guy not an OL guy, which is all the more reason he should have hired an experienced and competent OL coach to begin with. I think Colledge, Spitz and Sitton are players. I'd have Colledge at RT, Sitton at RG and Spitz at C.

That still leaves us without a left side of the line. We need an athletic LG who can pull and someone with good feet for LT. And that's the real kicker - there simply isn't anyone with LT feet on the roster. Ted actually drafted a guy with LT feet but he tried to get cute and stashed him on the PS where he was poached after 2 weeks. I mean, say what you want about Meredith size and strength wise right now, he had the feet. And Ted valued that asset so little he put him in position to get signed away.

I guess you get what you pay for.

Contradiction?

Nope. Just saying he's drafted some guys that I think are players. Not all of them are and it was a major folly to let the LT position to get so old and depth there so thin. Don't see how that's a contradiction.

So in another four years we will have a complete line? I do agree with you it could very well be the coach, Campen. TT drafted good OL in Seattle(where by the way, I see they just released one of their Tackles). It also has been a combination. The first three years of MM, he couldn't figure out a combination of lineman to play throughout the entire seasons.

Do position coaches sometimes get canned midway through the season? I understand they may not want to do this (or aren't even thinking about it) because I'm sure all the good ones have contracts with other teams, but man watching this O line is like listening to chalk board scraping. It's either the players or the coaching I'm not quite sure which, although I suppose it's altogether possible it could be both at the same time as well.

I say it is the players. You cannot, no matter who is coach, teach Colledge to stop Jared Allen. The difference in talent and ability is a chasm that is too wide to cross. For that matter, teaching Babre to stop anything would be about the same. These guys are just not worthy of starting in the NFL. IMO.

From what I've seen I guess I'd have to agree. Although it took me awhile because I had such high hopes before and during preseason.

So I guess the question is now, how the heck do they salvage this unit for rest of the season? I can't see anyone crazy enough or with enough of a log jam at O line to cut anyone we could use. The only thing I can see that SHOULD happen is a trade, but is a trade for only one O lineman going to make that much of a difference or are there too many deficiencies to be made up for by one man alone? More and more I think this is who we got the rest of the season for better or worse.

One of the first things they have to do is quit believing we have somthing when we don't. Preaching that Colledge is great when he sucks is dilusional and saying he is our best lineman ain't saying much.

Thompson evidently thinks that five decent guards + Scott Wells = an oline that doesn't need any OTs and will get by playing multiple positions.

Colledge- 2nd rd. '06
Spitz- 3rd rd. '06
Barbre- 4th rd. '07
Sitton- 4th rd. '08
Lang- 4th rd. '09

Not bad picks on paper, but somthing is not right. Colledge is supposed to be our best lineman, but for a second rounder the staff way over-valued him. Thompson's done his due dilligence on the line as far as spending picks but has failed miserably on his targets, and continues to draft guards and ignoring that we need OTs of the future.

We've only drafted two true OTs in the past two years, and one can't get active and the other got swept to the PS and was taken by a team with three rookies on their Oline, who are playing better than our guys.

I'm not even that bothered the musical chairs are back in effect, because good linemen slide over on other teams all the time and continue playing well. Our linemen just aren't very good.

after letting g's rivera/wahle loose after 2004
and c flanagan in 2005,
tt drafted probowlers (in the first 2 rounds)

2005
logan mankins g
michael roos ot

2006
davin joseph g
nick mangold c
marcus mcneill ot

and starters in 2007
joe staley ot
ben grubbs g
justin blalock g

who he actually drafted--rodgers, collins, murphy, hawk, colledge, jennings, harrell, jackson.
the one lineman he picked, colledge, he passed over mcneill who made the probowl in 2006/7

I would have expected him to do better, having access to that Sports Almanac from 2045 as he does.

Maybe TT magic 8 ball told him to ask again later when he asked who he should pick when he was picking his linemen.

That is why it is so important to bring in the right talent to build a team. GM's are paid to make the right choices.

he might not have picked harrell
but would he have picked any olinemen?

I think holding Thompson accountable for not picking McNeill isn't fair. Clifton was a very good LT at the time. Heck he made the Pro Bowl in 2007. Our biggest problem at the time was the interior OL after letting Wahle and Rivera go. We had two solid bookends at OT. Now its completely reversed. We have a solid group of interior OL who constantly have to shuffle around because we have terrible depth at OT. I think the biggest problem is not with our starting 5 OL its just that we don't have a backup LT. When Clifton goes down we downgrade 3 spots on the OL. Colledge isn't as good at Clifton at LT. Spitz isn't as good as Colledge at LG and Wells isn't as good as Spitz at Center. I really do think Colledge, Spitz, and Sitton can be pretty good. What we have right now is a total mess though. Inexperience at RT. Old age and lack of depth at LT.

The only one that I can really see as being worth the pick was Joe Staley, who I thought was going to end up being a great OT for a zone scheme. He really should have been the pick in 2007. While not an elite LT, he's certainly proven to be a solid starter for the 49ers.

And the reason that Marcus McNeill was passed up for almost two whole rounds is he has had serious back issues since college. While he's been relatively durable since he got into the league, he's had some problems with the back issues flaring up again recently.

Since when do back issues bother our scouting department?

(OK, Packer Backer NY, I admit it.)

I knew you'd come around!

I agree with you.... to a point. Where does the accountability start, then? If we don't hold him accountable for individual player moves, do we hold him accountable for the entire team? I think both are very closely related and you can't discount one without looking at the entire picture.

Thompson may have a good model and philosophy of how to build a team, but I think his process is flawed and it is leading to the situation we currently have. From top to bottom, he has not made enough of the right moves that translate to building a winning football team. Like him or hate, when our team takes the field, it is the culmination of these moves that translates to the Win/Loss column.

Good post. I have never been a Thompson fan, he hasn't done everything wrong. We have a good young talented team, but there are a few holes. Another thread was interesting to read where he showed how the safety and OL positions are lowest paid and our two weakest areas. There has to be some priorities given to each of these areas. The thing that bugs a lot of us is the use of FA. OL is an area to pick up linemen. TT has always liked the no-names from other teams, like Chillar, even Pickett. There has to be linemen that can be picked up. I just remembered those two bozos he brought in after Wahle and Rivera left. Never mind. Maybe that's why TT doesn't use FA for OL.

Geathers is hurt and inactive today.

The Ravens are starting Mike Oher at LT in his place.

TT could have had both of them. And our starting tackles would have been set for ten years.

Instead we are stuck with 33 year old Clifton, a guard who cannot start at LT in Colledge,TJ Lang a rookie who is really a guard, Alan Barbre who well, may not be the answer, and calling back Tauscher after two serious injuries.

Oh, and we lead the league in sacks.

It isn't a TOTAL mess. It is just that we don't have a decent backup at LT and our RT is very green. I suppose not having anyone backing up Clifton was a mistake but I'd wager most teams don't have decent backups at every position on their teams. One position where the coaches rolled the dice was the spot where we took a hit and the dominoe effect went thru the entire O line. The NYG gambled and didn't have anyone backing up Kenny Phillips. He goes on IR and they had to go and get one of our rejects (Rouse)! At least Cliffy is coming back. I'm sure NE is praying nothing happens to Brady. They have an undrafted rookie backing up their super star who is coming off major knee surgery!

I disagree with both of you.

Just see what I posted above, about the Ravens and Mike Oher.

Further, I do not see any position at all on the OL that I would call superior. That means G, C and T.

In my view, they are all average or worse.

Compare this to the following of not long ago: Clifton, Wahle, Flanagan, Rivera, Tauscher. Which was a Pro Bowl line. Meaning, that each of those guys could have been invited to the Pro Bowl without stretching it. And the difference in Cliffy and Tausch between then and today is both age and injury. I think the jury is out on whether Tausch is the answer at RT today.

Plain and simple: TT screwed this position up by not doing due diligence by either the draft or FA to a very important position. In fact, John Madden thought the way you build a team was through the OL first. TT has not done that.

And it is impacting both our pass game and run game.

I really fear that AR is going to get seriously hurt. And then where will we be? Flynn and Brohm? The season is over at that point. And TT should be also.

Look on the bright side, our 2nd round backup QB that we drafted is wallowing on the practice squad!

You are correct.

Forgot about that.

And the Ravens lost to CIN at home.

They must be a LOT better than us!!

And are set for 10 yrs at LT.
(If they are happy losing to CIN for 10 yrs.)

Not saying Oher won't be good,
just that it looks like your guy couldn't produce a win!!
Maybe he's not a savior like you think!!

Go Pack!!

What is your point???
Boller was sacked a total of 2 times and Odom the guy who dominated out o-line had ZERO sacks. OL was not the reason Baltimore lost to the Bengals. Looks like theor OL did a good job of protecting Boller, and Rice rushed for 69 yds compared to Grants 46 vs Cincy. Baltimore OL was NOT the reason for the loss but our OL was a MAJOR factor in the loss to Cincy. Again what is your point???

You didn't watch that game, did you?

I am not saying their OL isn't better than ours.
Just responding to a poster who was insinuating
TT should have drafted Oher and we would be set at LT for 10 yrs.
This has yet to be proven.
I feel Rice is a better RB than Grant,
could that be a factor in his additional 20 yds.
(Wow thats a ton!! They are MUCH better )




Yeah, did you?
Their line wasn't that great even though they held Odom in check.
69 yds for a good back like Rice?
Don't forget an additional 3-4yds for MaGahee and McClain!!

Ok heres the Tremendous Ravens results for the last several years

2004 9-7
2005 6-10
2006 13-3
2007 5-11
2008 11-5

Wow looks somewhat familiar to me,
they don't look that "consistant" at all.

Fire the GM !! They don't maker the playoffs EVERY YEAR!!!

And an 8 game decline from 06 to 07??
Worse than our drop last year!!

I thought we were the only team who this could happen to????

No maybe some people just don't understand the way the NFL works.


Go Pack!!

I figured by your comments you just saw the score and didn't really watch the game.

lets see 3 winning season in 5 for Baltimore. Ted Thomspson era a GM 1.

Sure there are flows in the NFL but at this point I expected more in GB. We were told that the all of Teds extra picks were to build depth. So where is the depth. Its all about results and the overall body of work and at this point Thompson is sub 500. The next 12 games will show alot