MM needs to go. Yes, fire him, he is looking more and more like an idiot on the sidelines.

Lack of urgency at critical points of games. Early in games, late in games, just don't see the drive to march forward to try and win games ( for several years now).

Abandons the run like diarrhea.

Vanilla game plans/play calling. I'd settle for that right now. UNIMAGINATIVE IF FAR MORE ACCURATE.

Take away the short passing game and force THE PACKERS to run or throw deep. Oops, no ruuning game to scare a defense, whats that leave?

Wonder if Rodgers had an O-line and a running back if he would be any good. He really holds the ball too long (well known).

Can't rely on the big play (consistantly) to win a spot in the playoffs, never mind a Super Bow. That is the exception, not the rule.

TT is off the hook this year. I really expect less then an 8/8 season.

His linebackers are mundane at best
The O-line needs a fixin
The D-line needs depth
You would hope the coach could get something more out of your draftees

Not ranting, just pointing out what I'm seeing.

As for positives?

Only 2 games behind the division leader!!!

Let's not overlook MM's really bad decision to call a review on that early fumble. Way to make a bad situation worse.

The biggest thing was going for it late in the 3rd quarter. That was a huge difference maker. We could have really used those 3 pts. We wouldn't have needed to attempt to try two onside kicks and we could have been going for the game tying TD drive instead of the FG to get within a TD. Outside of maybe 7-8 min. left in the 4th quarter you take points when you can. The playcalling was really suspect today. I know it sounds crazy but despite all the problems we had, this was a winnable game.

That entire 4 down sequence was poor play calling.

I call the Lee play an individual failure, and the outcome makes the coaches decision look bad when it was in fact a good playcall that was blown. The dropped passes are killing us.

Actually Lee was the saftey valve ... the First Option was to the right but whover went to that side was down on the ground...then Rodgers came back to Lee....

Yup, lots of chances, failure was the results...

I go back to coaching on much of this...

It was Finley on the ground. He slipped over.

Still, Lee needed to catch that ball.

yeap MM was up in the Booth looking at the replay and signaling down to himself... Whoever is in our replay booth has an issue.. should not have done that...But Oh well

Regardless of whether Lee was the safety valve, the ball was put on his hands and he dropped it. His being there as the safety valve is by design, and his job is to catch the damn ball if it's thrown to him. That play was an individual failure on Lee's part any way you look at it.

On the play before that one, am I the only one who thought Finley ran a bad route? Looked like he had position on the LB, and if he just angles his route toward the end zone instead of away from hit, he catches the ball on the goal line for an easy TD.

I think the play was poorly designed. Finley should have been in the end zone, and as a "jump and get it" athletic tight end you have to be willing to throw to him in the end zone so he can out compete the linebacker. Face it, one on one he should come down with it. Instead, we had him short of the end line with sideways momentum where the defender had a the leverage to keep him out. Just a poorly designed play.

No, no, no!! That was MM's fault the ball was dropped.

As usual I'll wait until we get into the season further than 4 games....and oh btw we are 2-2 not 0-4 as some people come across...before making comments on any changes.of staff or player personnel.

I agree on Lee... Was just stating he was not first Option....

Also read on the play before the 3rd down ..The REFS Slowed that down even though we did not change any players...WTF.... McCarthy was pissed as it was up tempo play call to cath them out of position....and the REFS slowed it down... but TO should have been called then....

Maybe he ran a wrong route....think of that? Maybe the play was designed to be deeper but was not executed? Did Finely slip (think I saw that) on the play and was not able to actually run the designed play?

Finley Slipped on 4'th Down.. He was again the first Option.. on the 3rd down MM is pissed because it was an uptempo Play..Get to the line quick and snap and the REFS held it up ..Alowed the queens to get in position...

WOW.

4 games in and already people are calling for firings? The Packers got beat by a better team. I don't know how anybody could have watched that game and come away with any other conclusion. I for one, will wait until the season is done and see how McCarthy and Thompson respond before I come to any conclusion about their performance. I will say this however, 8 sacks has much more to with this loss than challenging a fumble in the first quarter.

MM is a joke. I'm sorry not running the football going away from short passing game when your QB is running for his life. Good God has he ever heard of adjustments. Greg Jennings has been all but shutdown this year. You need to get creative with your top wideout. Holmgren put Sterling Sharpe in motion, and even lined him up in the backfield. Ryan Grant needs to sitdown too. I'm tired of watching 5'9 184lbs CB take him down violently I may add. Maybe it is time to try Kregg Lumpkin or god forbid Brandon Jackson could get on the field. How long has he been out six weeks with a sprained ankle really.

MM the train is leaving the station on your status as Head coach in Green Bay.


There is a guy in the Monday Night Football booth who i'm sure would be interested in coaching the Packers.

Yes his name is John Gruden.

Step it up MM you like to use the word accountability with your players. Time to look into the mirror.

Youre acting like this is the 1st year for MM and TT and we are all jumping the gun. These problems have been mounting for numerous seasons.

I did think of that.

despite your comment, I still think that is a misuse of Finley. The play is here in this video. It starts at 3:05 into the video:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlig...ings-highlights

There was no slip. Finley breaks pretty much straight laterally downthe line of scrimmage. With the receiver moving laterally, and the ball coming from behind him, where he has to look back, he loses leverage on the defender when he then has turn and move up field-- his momentum is away from the goal line.

Did he run the wrong route-- who knows-- it ain't that complicated of a route. Did he run a bad route- that's a possibility because again, he actually is running slightly away from the goal line.

Finley is a guy you should be attacking in the endzone above the defenders. He's shown he isn't a fade over the back shoulder kind of receiver.


edit: I guess I didn't quote the post I was responding to with my original post- I was following the post commenting about Finley running a bad route on the third down play.

PLEASE NO NOT GRUDEN
He was a train wreck in Tampa, won with Dungys guys. The guys lost that locker room quick in Tampa, there were not many tears shed in that locker room when he was shown the door

How exactly am I acting like this is their first year? By not calling for their firing after one loss? The team is 2-2, we are 4 games into the season!

Did I say that these problems weren't going on for a while? I have written several posts saying that IMO the O-Line, if not improved, will get them both fired. I am very aware that penalties have been at an unacceptable level since McCarthy arrived and IMO that is another thing that could cost him his job if this season isn't successful.

Teams don't fire coaches after a 2-2 start and IMO they shouldn't. Yes, IMO calling for McCarthy to be fired after this game is jumping the gun - if things are still in this state after 8 games, then I might agree that the Packers should consider it.

What's Holmgren doing these days? If the Packers want to beat the Vikes with Favre at the helm (if he's around next year) then there's your guy to do it.

Having this team peaking during the third game of preseason was just brilliant. Maybe they should have been practicing the fundamentals and pad level in preseason rather then looking like a Super Bowl contender.

This team is treading water. Eventually you get tired and drown.

I know they aren't gonna fire him after 2 games. MM tenure is starting to remind me of Sherman's, several years and counting.

I disagree in a lot of ways. I thought MM called a very good game. You could tell he really gameplanned against the vikes. Running draws and screens to offset their aggressiveness (which nearly all worked). Drives were killed by sacks and penalties. MM had the ball moving every time.

- Going 4 it on 4th was necessary. Down by 2 TDs in the 4th. Kuhn can't let himself be tackled on the inch line by one LB. Lee needs to catch that pass. Not sure how MMs fault.

- I was ticked about the early challenge but my brother pointed out it was gamesmanship. He called that challenge to deflate the Vikes coming off the sidelines to take over. Making them sit. I 100% believe that is the case.

I think if you want to be pissed at someone, be pissed at Dom. They brought 0 pressure. They let the old man pick us apart. Whats up with that. 7.33 seconds is about as ridiculous as it gets. It could've been 2 minutes if Favre wanted to hold the ball longer.

Packinatl beat me to it - but Jon Gruden??? What did he ever win? Are you going to say he won Dungy's Super Bowl next, before the team started to nose dive under him?

First of all, there was nothing wrong with the 4th down call. MM said the mistake was the third down call - he addressed these calls directly. That was a call he said he'd like to have back. He realized it at the time, but there wasn't time to change the call. Give him a break, jeez!

Secondly, McCarthy is not a great gametime coach. This isn't new. It irritates me too, but in fairness, very few coaches are. Lombardi wasn't so different in that regard. MM's strength is in scheming and planning. There was nothing essentially wrong with the game plan. If he failed, it was in not hammering into Rodgers all week the importance of getting rid of the ball quickly. Perhaps you can argue that he didn't plan well enough for the line - well, firstly, I think he did, actually, but secondly and more importantly, isn't that why we have asst. coaches?

I'm losing patience with these guys too, but really, this hang 'em high hysteria after each loss is way over the top.

PS. I should have refreshed the page (I tend to open a number of them and work my way through them). Good post Oh Packer, I agree on all counts.

If this happens, I would bet that there is a house cleaning and at that point I would support it. I agree that this team is hard to watch right now and things need to get better or the consequences will not be good for Thompson & McCarthy. I am just not willing to write these guys off right now.

The problem is that these aren't new issues. These are issues that have been common for years. In judging MM, he had one great year and a few dissapointing years and this year hasn't exactly gotten off to the best start. Yes, it's only the fourth game but the major issue with this team is the oline and that comes down to players, we don't have 5 good ones. There isn't that much time during the season to teach the "fundamentals" that MM loves so much, that should be done in training camp. If you spend a day teaching fundamentals in the week leading up to a game, that's one fewer day of gameplanning than the other team has, and that's been apparent in some of the games we've played.

Maybe I wasn't clear. I know these aren't new issues. If you look back at my posts in this thread, when did I even imply that they were new?

I have written since the first game that this management team has had long enough to fix the O-Line and that if this season is derailed by failure there, they should be gone. While I haven't said it as much, I feel pretty much the same way about the number of penalties.

My entire argument is that it is game 4. We are 2-2. It's way too early to call for people to be fired.

Saw an interesting post-game quote from Woodson on this subject



Not exactly calling Dom out, but it's clear Woodson thinks we need to be a little more aggressive with our defensive play calling.

I think, at least IMO, the realization is setting in that the team TT has built is below average again this year. Last year we knew we had OL and DL issues and we kind of gave TT another "pass" on a bad year because of the Favre saga and it was Rodgers first campaign as our field general. In addition to the trenches, we have Safety issues as well.

But overall, the problems have not been corrected and it is even more evident after the euphora of preseason has worn off.

We have not even really faced a powerhouse football team firing on all cylinders, yet. The Vikings are good and I got the feeling they really let off the gas in the last 5 min. of the game. I got the feeling that if the game was closer, Favre could have dinked and dunked his way down the field at will and punched another one in. I just never felt like the game was winnable at the end. At least, not without a fluke miracle.

I would have to say these two post I completely agree with..

What did the Vikngs punt--twice I think. And as bad as our offensive line is, on our first drive we were on the move and Rodgers fumbled, another drive in Vikings territory we were intercepted, then there was the 4th and goal drop. Three mistakes yes but we moved the ball all except for three drives. Our defense let us down last night. Woodson's correct, they need to play aggressive. They need to have Kampman back as an end. They need to sit Barnett and play reckless. When they are turned loose, they will do fine. Yes there will be plays they get beat on, but when Favre is harassed by the blitz, he was terrible. Knock his ass down as much as Rodgers was last night and my bet is Rodgers fares better.

I agree that the Vikes (at this point at least) are clearly a better team. I also agree that this team is not a good team right now and that if the season ends this way, Thompson & McCarthy's time in Green Bay may come to an end. I do not agree that this is a below average team (I think there pretty average right now) but that doesn't matter much right now. Average doesn't get you in the play-off anymore than below average does.

Maybe you are right that people are struggling with a team that isn't living up to expectations and I can understand that but it is way too early to expect or even call for any firings.

I think that the talent on this team with the exception of the OL is above average, fix the OL and you fix this team. I don't think anyone should be fired at this point(who the hell do you replace them with, right now?) I do think some major stategies need to be changed. Like areas of the team that are important and that FA is a way to help.

Pretty much where I'm at, too.

But unlike you, I want TT and MM fired. But, I'm not dumb enough to call for it now. The timing wouldnt do this franchise any good in the slightest. Tweedle Dee and Tweele Dumb got us in this mess, might as well let them see if they can dig their way out.

But I'm not holding my breath. After last night, expectation = lower.

I don't care either way about retaining them at the end of the season. I see good things they have done and bad as well. I think that their future will be pretty clear by the end of the season. What I find funny is that they got the hardest thing right (replacing Favre with Rodgers) while they do not seem to be able to the easiest (find solid average NFL role players).

If the Packers don't make the playoffs, I truly think MM & TT will be fired. MM keeps making the same mistakes year in and year out, and TT can't draft proper linemen if his life depended on it. It's getting incresaingle annoying when MM says the same damn thing after every loss. And TT, never says a damn word in regards to admitting error.

Look at the available coaches out there. You got Cowher, Gruden, Shanahan. MM & TT better step up their game or hope that the Packers do, cuz it ain't lookin good for em.

Yes there are good coaches out there for sure who are available. Gruden I would not care for. But Cowher in GB? With a REAL OC and retaining Capers as DC? Sounds awfully good to me.

Dare I even mention the Walrus (was not Paul)? I think Holmgren has moved on from GB for good, and I don't think he's the coach he once was. But it's an interesting thought.

Agreed. Nobody's head is going to roll before the end of the year and I suspect the same leadership that is running this ship now, will be intact next year. Maybe a few coaches gone, here and there, but the top 3 will stay unless we win under 6 games.

Packer backer..I knew at one time or another we could agree... And I agree with you on this one..

There's one guy I think maybe has to go. How much faith can you have in an offensive coordinator who says this:

"Asked whether Rodgers might be holding the ball too long because he’s bracing to get hit, offensive coordinator Joe Philbin said, “I’m hoping it’s because there maybe wasn’t anybody open."

I don't believe in firings during the year. I cannot imagine Mark Murphy becoming involved with such a thing and I can practically guarantee that TT will not fire MM that way. I don't even believe they would even fire Campen that way, although I do believe he is on very thin ice the rest of this year.Actually, I believe the team would have to perform really poorly for the rest of the year before firings are even considered.

I am starting to believe that a little of TTs plan for this team is beginning to unravel, and I was and am a supporter of his methods. We have a lot of important FAs after this season and now he is faced with a need for at least one and possibly two OTs besides that. Two of the most expensive and important positions to fill, especially by dipping into free agency to do so.Each year there are very few ready to play OTs in the draft and you would need to be high in the draft to get one of them. Much less two. Even by spending big money in FA they are hard to come by.

I think this team will go on to play very well at times this year and show promise in many areas, but IMO this is not yet a team ready to compete at the highest level. They show flashes of it but the few glaring holes are problematic.

Next offseason if you hear TT say that we are happy with the players we have and just need to "coach them up" you will be hearing him signing his walking papers, because IMO Clifton will be let go in FA, not because he can't play, but because of his injury history, and Colledge is NOT a left tackle. Then what? Barbre needs to be given more time but at this point he doesn't look the part of an OT. He will be given it. Next year, regular failure will not be tolerated.

TT will have his hands full, and IMO his and MMs future in Green Bay will be riding on it. The statute of limitations on excuses is almost up.

I hesitate to be critical of play-calling because we don't know what's going on behind the scenes, correct execution, etc. But if MM's plan was for Aaron to have 3 and 5 step drops, that seems appropriate. If he had delayed handoffs to Grant, that's seems appropriate given the Vikes aggressive rush ends. He rans screens to Grant also. What is bad about that overall plan?

If anything, I wish he would have run the ball more, but there again, it's difficult to tell. MM mentioned Aaron changed at least one run play to a pass, and who knows how many others.

Specifically, regarding the 4-down sequence where we failed to score. The first down play was excellent. Grant got down near the goal line. The second down play to Kuhn: I think MM has gone to this a bit too much. Vikes game-planned for that. BUT, Kuhn had to beat ONE man. He lost that battle. Is that MM's fault? On the 3rd down play, that's been addressed, but I would think Finley needs to run that route deeper. Fourth down's been covered elsewhere.

In the end, stupid penalties, bad OL play, and some poor decision-making by Aaron did us in. None of that has to do with MM's play calling.

So you haven't figured out why he did that eh? Keep trying, you'll get it.

Please put "rant" in the title next time so I can not waste my time reading it. My lunch break is only so long.


I will address this though:

Vanilla Play Calling:

You don't know this and you don't know anything about it.

I watch these games and make note of how MM plays the defense with his personnel groups and calls. He does a pretty good job as far as I can tell, of course there are run/pass options and audibles that make it hard to tell sometimes. Any fan stating the above is probably an ignoramus.

Wanna prove me wrong? Post your film analysis.