Wow, tough emotional loss. Let's set the Favre thing aside for a second, and just look at the football game.

*Jared Allen dominated this football game. He tore Daryn Colledge apart, and then was even rougher on TJ Lang. There is a problem in Green Bay and it needs to be addressed sooner rather than later. As long as Ted keeps this offensive line the way it is, the Packers will remain a second tier football team. As the defense continues to develop, we need to match that by upping the talent on the offensive line. If Rodgers has time to throw, we win, it's pretty simple.

*I have to give Rodgers the "huge balls" award for this game. The throw to Jennings (or, more accurately, Winfield) was off, but he spent the entire night running for his damn life and posted a 110.6 QB rating. Honestly? If we could get him some time, he could challenge for being the best QB in the NFL. Sure, his internal clock in the pocket is still a little wacky, but can you blame him? His only other option is getting drilled from the blind side.

*I can't figure out how I feel about Capers' scheme tonight. We limited Peterson. But Brett absolutely tore us a new one. We blitzed ONCE on 3rd down tonight, and it forced a check down and a punt. Our pass rush on Favre was abysmal, and you NEED to get to the QB to be successful in this league. Rushing 3 and dropping 8 clearly wasn't sufficient.

*How about Jermichael Finley's coming out party? That's a heck of a move on the TD catch, and if I remember he had one other long one before the night was over.

*I don't know whether there should have been coverage over the top a few times, but Al Harris got smoked again and again and again. He apparently didn't make it to Minnesota tonight.

*Congratulations to Driver for tying the career receptions record for the Packers.

*We abandoned the run a bit tonight, but seemed to run effectively when we chose to. I like using the pass to set up the run as opposed to the alternative.

*How about the return of the screen game tonight? All night long starting from drive one, we utilized screens to keep the furious pass rush off balance and gain big chunks of yardage.

*What a GREAT play by Clay Matthews on the strip and TD. Hopefully that's a sign of things to come.

*Now, I'm going to avoid the prototypical "calling out of the refs" that is usually associated with a post game loss. Really, I am. I'm biting my tongue. But I have no choice but to believe the Vikings played a perfect game tonight. Not a single penalty. Not one person held. Not a single flinch on the line. Nothing. Well done, I guess. Oh, and the pass interference call on Woodson (and incorrect offsides call on the same play) WERE absolute BS. Okay, so that's my one complaint. But it's a game changer.

*Most NFL games, especially divisional rivalry games, are determined by a key play here or there. Tonight, Donald Lee blew his chance at a big play. A loss is never the fault of one guy. But that's a play that NEEDS to be made, and I don't accept any excuse for dropping that ball on 3rd down.

*As much as a loss sucks, I'm happy with the fact that we never packed it in or allowed this game to get ugly. This game had the appearance of getting ugly after the safety, but the Packers put up a nice little comeback and really kind of deflated the hype from what looked like a "dominating Vikings win." To force two turnovers deep in Vikings territory and have a dropped TD pass by the opponent only to win by 7 at home isn't that big of a statement for the Vikings.

*Plays of the game: Clay Matthews strip and TD.
Pass, catch and run on the first Jermichael Finley TD.

Long story short, this team is a solid offensive line away from being one of the best teams in the NFL. The defense will find it's groove and continue to improve. The skill players on both sides of the ball are in place. The clock is running, Ted. I don't know how or when you're going to make it happen, but you have a franchise QB and getting him killed (or not) rests directly on your shoulders. Clifton getting healthy and signing Tauscher could do wonders for this team down the stretch. But that's on Ted.

Divisional games are always exhausting, and they're always a battle. Ones against Brett Favre on Monday Night Football are even more so. I feel like I just ran a marathon. But at the end of the night, it's only one game. The Vikes get the Ravens and Steelers, we get a week to rest up and then the Lions and Browns. It's time to go to work.

Great analysis I'd say. You hit all of my major points. I don't think you can overemphasize the favorable calls the vikes got early/mid game. Did anyone else see Kampman get a handful of facemask and not draw the penalty? The PI on Woodson was questionable at best. Don't get me started...

It sounds strange but Rodgers impressed me tonight more than he ever has in his young career. Can any of us think of a QB getting sacked 8 friggin times yet throw for nearly 400 yards and post a 110 QB Rating? I have more faith in Rodgers than I ever have despite losing to Favre. The Vikings really couldn't have played any better and we played like total crap yet we still only lost by 7. Rodgers is pretty damn tough. He took a beating out there yet just kept fighting. I think this performance will only inspire more respect and confident in him among Packers players. Despite some catastrophic failures tonight, there were quite a few positives. Finley was outstanding tonight. Donald Lee blew it on what should have been a TD pass on 4th down that would have kept the game in check. He's got to catch that ball.

To make the Lee drop even worse, it was actually on fourth down. No excuse. It's a pattern now, a bad one. It's been every week, and it hasn't been "cleaned up".

The Woodson call was moot, there were 2 defensive penalties that play, the 2nd was off sides, is it didn't matter if PI was called or not. The next play a TD by AP, there was again off sides against the Packers that was declined. I saw tons of holding going on by the Packers O linemen that was not called. Childress played possum with up the gut running calls in the 4th when the pass was open all day. Summing it up if you on on side kicked twice in the 4th quarter, you probably got dominated.

1. The problem is the OL is not close to being solid. I would say that to even get to above average, let alone good, we need at least two players. Plus, who is there to replace Clifton? (Another mistake by TT: Not drafting Geathers in the supplemental.)

2. I am not so sure the defense will find its groove. Most people know that you have to put pressure on Favre, or he will eat you up. Everyone knows that except Capers I guess. Because Favre could have used his cell phone for all the time he had in the pocket tonight. Plus, where was the change up to he 4-3 that was promised us? I didn't see it. ANd it would be a good DL: Jenkins, Raji, Jolly or Pickett, and AK.

Our front seven last year was poor. This year its a bit better but still below average. I think its clear that AK is being wasted at OLB. He is an excellent DE. So far, he is an average OLB. If we go back to the 4-3, keep him and
put him where he belongs. If we stay with the 3-4, then trade him.

I also do not see the point in keeping both Hawk and Barnett. They are both overpaid and overrated. And I actually think they are worse in the 3-4 than the 4-3. I would either cut or try and trade one of them.

And man, do we need a safety or what?

This is an average team. Take a look at the schedule in November and December. I say we go 8-8.

A lot of positives to gain but of course a lot of teaching moments too. This team has the potential and all it'll take is some cleaning up. The question is, can they get it cleaned up in time to make a serious run? I thnk so, as there is a lot of game left to be played. Bye week is a great time to take care of it.

Here is another question.

Why do we have three fullbacks, yet no veteran back up LT?

Are MM and TT that smart?

They looked pretty stupid tonight.

I have to say AR was very impressive to me tonight. I can honestly say I respect him im an admiring way. Now we need to get him an O-line or someone that will get him one. I would sure hate to see AR waste his talent.

This is a team that for all it's strengths(QB, CB's) has major weaknesses at OL & LB. Playing AK at LB is a waste of talent. If you can't maximize his talent trade him for an OL. I hate the Vikes but they are a better team. When you get outcoached by a Childress led team you have serious problems. Let's not use the favorable calls for the Vikes as an excuse. Capers went with the let's stop the AP train and make Favre beat you defense. Well he kicked our arse tonight. How long do you keep making excuses for a GM who can't solve an OL talent problem and a coach who can't put together a consistently productive offense? Sure, we make lot's of big plays, but we live and die by it. They need to turn the ship around immediately or we need to find different answers. I am sick to my stomach after this loss.

Yeap... After being beat by Chilly and now being at 5-2 against him MM needs to Go... may as well as send TT out the door to... I mean he is no good of a GM... He does not have the FA spending we need to be competitors and he does not tell us everything he is doing or thinking...

Tired of alll the fans making excuses... Cause it had nothing to do with the Viking Coaching Staff picking Favres Brain on the players tendancies and the team.. I mean when was the last time Favre was off the bench and into the Play of the Defense as much as he was last night...

Yeap we have a bad team...8 Sacks and we still could have ben in the game with a few calls our way..Oh Sorry there were no penalities on the Vikings...

Capers will right the ship on D....the O line needs some work..Rodgers is playing Good... But I tend to thnk AR is thinking to much ...That is why the ball is staying in his hands longer... he needs to get that worked out with his recievers.. Kinda hard for AR in a sense he has no confidence in his line so he is Jumpy.. He has the play and draws back because of all the dropsies on the Recievers...

And maybe on Nov 1'st all the Favre Fans can cheer there hero to a heroes welcome at Lambeau... That is right we should not BOO...Lets make BF feel Welcomed by All means... Please do not disrespect the legend...

There is one good thing that came out of this game, without question Rodgers is a great QB. His holding on to the ball can be easily fixed and I'm not sure why McCarthy hasn't done something about this.

Great franchise QBs are hard to find in this league. I just hope his talent isn't wasted with poor Coaching and poor General Manager decisions.

Personnel.


Sorry, we just don't have it. Our linemen are atrocious and to be honest, I think our WR's have been very overrated. Where is Greg Jennings? If he's a top-5 WR like everyone has been clamoring, then why isn't he stepping up? Say what you want about Rodgers not having enough time (obviously true) but to me, more than a few of these sacks have been coverage-related.

The only guy getting separation out there is Driver's old butt. (I think he's my favorite Packer... what a workhorse)

Our personnel needs go way beyond offensive line.

Kampman looked completely lost out there and hasn't done anything yet this year, our WR's haven't been that 4-5-headed monster of two years ago, Grant is well, Grant, our safeties sans Collins aren't much better than Marquand Manuel at this point. Overall, it's just not a very well constructed team.

I hate to say it. I know we're, "the youngest team in the league!" but that's not an excuse anymore. It can be for one year. Maybe two. But not this long.

The excuses are over. It's put up or shut up. The next 3/4 of the season is going to tell us a lot about the character of this team and the coaching staff.

That is exactly where my thoughts have been.

We are gonna need one heck finish to change my veiw on this team

Bottom line this team is 4-9 in its last 12 games. And what has changed since last year? New DC and scheme sure but not much else. I mentioned this last year also but its becoming clear that the young talent has been oversold to a great extent, sans Rodgers, Jennings and Collins. We have been told for 4 years now that all of the picks that Thompson made we would have quality depth, where is it??

And why exactly is that?

"Do not disrespect the legend?"

He's not a legend yet...legends are things of the past....current events is that he's playing QB for the Vikings.
Note to self: unless you throw a 15yard out on a game being covered by ESPN....only then are you a legend in real time.

The next time BF should be cheered at Lambeau (by a Packer fan) is when he's having his jersey retired (yes, thats right retired....for good....not to come back 3 weeks later).

1. Rodgers did not have a good game, at least not until the 4th quarter.

2. There is a lot of talent on the team. A lot.

3. What's this about bad coaching? I mean, just in terms of this game, there was nothing wrong with the offensive coaching. And out coached? Sorry, I don't agree. It's not that I don't think game time coaching can ever be out done by the opponent - it clearly does happen. But it's almost become a kind of hysterical wild card insult after every loss. McCarthy was not out coached in this game.

4. There were egregious holding non-calls on the part of both teams. Maybe more from the Vikings - probably more - but they were there on both sides. Still, something is wrong when all the penalties are called on one team - at least in a half and especially when the other side is blatantly committing fouls. But still, the refs call them, and then we, the loyal fans, damn the team for all the penalties. (Oh yes - since I forgot to don my sandwich board, that last bit was sarcastic.)

5. Something everyone is ignoring - for all the pressure on our QB and the lack of pressure on their QB, the outcome of this game still hinged on about two plays. That's how close it was.

Leader...I was being sarcastic... I sat here yesterday and listened to Packer Fans call in to ESPN 540 in Milwaukee, stating how they were Packer Fans and wanted Favre to win and Thompson to lose...and Favre to Win and Rodgers to LOSE, and with all the other comments on not booing Favre when he comes to Lambeau as that is not class... Well call me classless Cause If I was In Lambeau on Nov 1 it would be nothing but a boo.... and Loud...

Before anyone thinks or has an opinion I hate Favre..oh not the truth... I flew overnight with my oldest son and slept in Airports to see the NFC championship Game , cause I fugured at the Time it would be Brett's last Game at Lambeau ...I really thought he would retire and be done.. yes I went to see the Packers play , but I wanted to state in 20 years or so I was at Bretts Last game in Lambeau and how special he was to the FANS, the Team and the city.....

I dont hate Favre ... I have no respect for him anymore... The admiration is gone... Period... he is now a Viking..and as everyone is entitled to there opinions and the way they feel about someone so shall I...

I agree with your last post... But I am still on the fence on that one....

I am a Packer Fan that supports the team the management the best I can , I do not always agree with there decisions , But will support them...I guess that is the Marine in Me.. I did not always like some of my orders ...But when I had to obey them..I supported them and placed them out there to my troops as I supported them....I guess some would say that is Blind Leadership... I say it is discipline...

" There is Something in Good men that really yearns for discipline and the Harsh reality of head to head combat." VL...Respectfully

JMO

Once again Pack you state the Problems you see...What are the SOLUTIONS I ask ... What would you or the GM that you could potentially get in here do any better or get anymore from this team that what is being done...

I mean right now there are 19 teams that are 2-2 or worse... I guess that is a lot of unemployment coming up... So we should be able to another GM somehwere.we are 4 games into a season.. there are no trophies given out in September... Do i have rose colored glasses...Nope..Do I drink the Koolaid ..Nope..What I do is support the team and hold the Line , The Position coaches responsible for this as well...How can the Bengals protect Palmer with the same type of talent on their O Line.. and Palmer is less mobile then AR.... And When I state Talent I mean the grading out they had in the drafts ..the years in the NFL and the same types of schools and rounds in the Draft they were chosen...

So Is it TT judge of Talent....Is it The OL coaching...Is it the OC ...is it the HC.... who is accountable besides TT... so you get rid of TT and MM ...then what... send the whole OL out the door and start from scratch...

Not sure I agree at this point, Terry. Or at least, I'm struggling to find where exactly all this immense talent we (myself included up until this point) have been talking about.

First, let's get the obvious ones out of the way -- Aaron Rodgers and Charles Woodson. IMO, the two best players we have, bar none.

Beyond that though, I'm not so sure -- and that includes everyone's golden child, Greg Jennings. Why isn't he making plays and stepping up (and catching the damn ball) like a #1 that makes his kind of coin should?

Our offensive line I'd argue has very, very little talent. Our d-line is getting zero push, and heck, even our linebackers, a point we all thought would be a huge strong point, hasn't really shown up. I mean think about this guys. What linebacker has stood out to you this season?

I watched a rookie for the Bengals, Rey Maualuga make an impact. So far, I haven't seen any of ours do the same. Our safeties? Sure, we got Collins, a physically impressive player, but who is back there with him? Might as well be me at this point.

All in all, I'm just not sure this team is THAT talented.

Are you guys as down on Larry Fitzgerald and Roddy White right now too? It's been a slow start for big name WRs. Teams are keying on them. As long as it opens up opportunities for Driver and co. in the passing game, then fine. If it completely shuts us down, we have a problem.

It'd be one thing if they were keying in completely on Jennings, leaving Driver/Jones/Nelson open, but have they done much, either? Driver had a nice game last night, but there's definitely more to be desired (IMO) from our WR's - starting with catching the ball.

I do think the youth/talent level on this team has been oversold, and yes that is on TT as judge of talent. This team was void at LT in the offseason and lets be candid, Clifton does not have much left in the tank. But what did Thomspon do, draft 2 rookies to fill the hole and one did not even make the club. There were 30+ FA OT's available, Pace, Thomas are two names that come to mind. For what ever reason Thompson did not go that route. Pinning your depth on rookies at such a key position is a major gamble and look where we are now

Sure there are many teams at 2-2 this year but the way I judge is the overall body of work.

I think part of the issue is that Rodgers is seeing coverages he did not see in the past. And with the pressure he is having leads to issues reading his progressions. Last night there were at least 2 times where Jennings was running free but Rodgers did not pick him up.

Fix the OL and the Offense will be a beast-much like Allen was for Vikings Defense. If TT continues his lack of attention too the OL, A-Rod will not make it thought the season. I disappointed in the Packers loss,. but without question, A-Rod the future and if TT address the OL needs the Packers will make the playoffs and get revenge on Novermber 1st. If not the Pack could end up in thirf place! Other than the OL, the Packers has all the weapons required too make it too the SB...no fix, and then forget it!

Brett proved he still has it, so lets get over the issue why he's still playing (the money there and he got the talent)? TT needs to fix what wrong with-yes the OL. I can't stand lossing to Divisional foes-no moss!

(Being at work, I haven't had time to read all the other responses.)

This is exactly why Packer Fans need to be optimistic and not pessimistic. You are exactly right. Yet, fixing the offensive line isn't going to be easy in such a short time. I am not expecting the Offensive Line to all play like they are all pro's but it would be good if the coaching staff can just get them to play with some kind of consistency.

Agree with all the above.

Before the season started, I did not think we had the personnel for a front seven in the 3-4. With the additions of Mathews and Raji, 4-3 maybe. This is why I wanted TT to see what he could get for AK and Jennings in trades BEFORE the draft. I thought with what we had at WR, we could compensate for the loss of Jennings, and I kind of thought Finley would come around this year.

The safety problem is almost as bad as the OL problem. I mean, this has been going on since TT let Sharper go.

It is not a well constructed team because it is not good enough at key spots like RB, and OL, plus the front seven is not suited well for the 3-4.

Its pretty clear I think that TT and MM were disgusted with how the defense played last year. They then watched the Steelers in the playoffs and thought: Hey we can do that maybe.

Well, so far, we can't. I still say this team is better suited for a 4-3 right now. But if MM wanted Capers to go 3-4 all the time, then the above trades should have been made. Last year's draft was full of good linebacker prospects that you did not have to even trade up for. With what we could have gotten for AK and Jennings, we could have picked up at least two linebackers, and a good offensive lineman.

TT's innate conservatism has its good points. It has its drawbacks also. Every once in awhile you should go with your intuition.

Well Pack..I cant say I dont disagree.. I agree on Clifton... WHo knows what they are thinking..BUt I just have to assume...Yeah I know.. But MM and the OC and Campen should have some say in that ...Just a thought.. I dont believe TT goes in the room behind a curtain and makes all those choices without at least those 3 inputs... I am sure now if he did get there input and now sees it he is probably doing a little bit of Lombardi.. "What the hell is going on?"... I know I would...

I think this and 2 other areas need addressed asap... OL..RB and Safety...I say RB because BJ has not shown he can stay healthy...3 years in a row with Blackmon having injury issues as well does not help in the DB..I hoping they can turn underwood into something along with Lee and the other kid that was back there... Keep Collins... and find an upgrade to Bigby.... and I do belive some of that could be addressed by trading Barnett....No I dont hate barnett..But I agree with another poster that stated he is not great at Blitzing and he constantly over pursues....

I am also goint to state this here and elsewhere... Maybe we are drawing down on the OL too much.. I read today where MM stated that Rodgers was taking too long on his reads...he has 1 2 and 3 and MM goes over those reads with him each week... I know I saw last night at least 3 times where Rodgers did not go to the Checkdown...and he could have and had time... not Picking on Rodgers cause I thought he played his arse off... But he does need to get it out quicker..I do tend to Think that he thinking too much at times.... He needs to play a little reckless like he did last year somewhat...

JMO

It takes me a while to settle down before I start to think clearly. The Game while fun to watch was agonizing if you were a Packer fan. This is what I saw but since I'm not a coach, can't tell you why or how to fix it.
Good:
An offense that decided to move the ball in the 4th qtr.
A defense that planned to stop a team's top weapon and did.
A TE that will create problems for future opponents.
A QB that will be good enough to win some championships.
Bad:
Confusion in the offenseive line, not always assignment sure and improper tech.-Doesn't seem to be skill just coaching
Defense that had players out of position on pass plays- FS/SS I bet were out of position maybe 2/3 of the time.
QB who needs more seasoning to learn to throw the ball away. It took BF a long time as well to learn that.
One running back that is a player, not great but good, one that is degressing in his game and one hurt.

I figure that the D will take some time to be on the same page in changing to the 3-4 and still think that is a work in progress. The O-Line, maybe its in the same boat. Needs more time to start working together. Who knows but getting beat like they did on Monday night and still fighting at the end was at least a positive sign.

NFL Replay tonight if your a glutton for punishment