Off the top of anyones head, do we know of any teams out there with a decent offensive lineman who might be looking for a straight up trade for a pro bowl 4-3 End?

I feel sorry for Kampman out there. He has no strike off the snap and the scheme is starting to make him look like Barnett and Hawk - just kind of there but not really making any plays. Let's trade him, get him a shot at a decent team (he deserves it) and try to pick something up while his stock and reputation are still high. Probably every 4-3 team out there would kill for a player of his calibre. He ain't doing anything for us so lets get something for him.

Not a shocking prediction but I'm sure Aaron Kampman will not be a Packer next year - his choice, not Green Bay's

I'm afraid of that to max. Scheme changes and we may lose an all time Packer. He is Packer people but he will go where his talents will be used. His hand down, rushing the passer.

I think we franchise him at the end of the season, and trade him to a 4-3 team.

I still think that a straight-up Kampman-for-Peppers trade would have made both players happy, and worked out for both teams. I know AK is a fan-favorite, but I can't shake the feeling that Peppers would be significantly better in coverage, and I think that he'd have more success as a rush LBer.

Disappeared is all I can see.... sad....

He looked like a construction worker trying to do ballet out there in pass coverage tonight. What a terrible mis use of talent, they should never have him out there doing what he is doing, his talents do not match the scheme. You create schemes around the talent you don't keep the same talent and then force it into a new scheme, unless you have huge egos involved.

I was not a fan of the move to a 3-4 and this was one of the reasons. Still the move is coming along well, and I see a lot of potential. Still it just not seem to be a fit for AK, sad because the type of player he is. Just like we saw with Favre it is hard, but sometimes it may be best to let even great players go depending on the circumstance...

The worst part is that his trade value has already dropped considerably. Maybe call Al Davis I guess...

Trade him to OAK for Michael Bush + 2nd rd pick.

If Ted was smart he would trade Kampman and Barnett, they both still have good value IMO.

It could help build up the offensive line and safety postions.

It will be sad to see Aaron go. He's a class act.

Suppose you are right...add Dom Capers to the list of people that should be fired!

What a tragedy how Kampman is being used. He looks uncomftorable to say the least in coverage. I feel bad for Kampman in a contract year being asked to change positions. Kampman is a class act. I started a post before the draft discussing the possibility of moving Kampman for a variety of reasons. I got basted for even suggesting trading Kampman. Kampman is a 4-3 DE period. How many times did Gruden say why is Kampman not rushing the passer. What a waste.

I would agree with that. Good call.

Why not put his hand on the ground sometimes? I thought that we'd see some 4-3 hybrid stuff to take advantage of Aaron's pass rushing skills, but so far there hasn't been any that I've seen. It seemed to me that he was spying AP all night long. He wasn't allowed to just rush strait off the snap and go after Favre. He was waiting to see what AP did before rushing in. He did seem awkward in coverage, but really. . . on 3rd and long do we really need to drop Kampman into the deep zone and rush both inside backers? That's exactly what happened on 2 or 3 big plays (including a TD). Line up 4 down linemen and then blitz a 5th guy from somewhere else. Play them strait up and just flat out beat them. Enough with the 2-5 they don't know where it's coming from stuff. Just line up your talent and beat them strait up. Kampman is dropping back too much and waiting too much and being left on an island too much. They really need to just let him pin back his ears and rush the passer. Especially in good down and distance situations. I still think that he'll be an effective LOLB in this scheme, but he's not being used very well right now. He holds his end and seals against the run very well. Even though he looks uncomfortable, he hasn't been a liability in coverage. My biggest complaint is that he's just not being used much as a pass rusher. Put Jenkins, Raji and Jolly out there and either let him rush as an end or as a LB. Run some stunts and let him rush the middle sometimes. But let him rush. They have the perfect personnel for a hybrid 3-4/4-3 scheme and they aren't utilizing it. Matthews, Barnett, Hawk and Chillar can handle the coverage responsibilities. Instead of looking to trade our best pass rusher, how about we adjust our scheme to create mismatches in his favor? They need let him rush the passer and they need to start using more 4-3 elements. . . especially in nickle situations.

They do need to trade him. He's one of my favorite Packers, but he just isn't suited to a 3-4. He doesn't have the burst needed to get to the QB from the LB position. Kampman's a workhorse, Jared Allen-type player. He does his damage with his hand in the ground going one-on-one with another blocker and using his power/speed and good technique to get there -- not his unbelievable athletic talent.

I say you trade him for a draft pick and use it on a tackle or running back and move Chillar to his position.

It's ironic. I have been begging for the 3-4 for years. Now they finally have the personnel for a 4-3! I'm sure it won't happen, but with the bye week upon us I wouldn't be upset if they changed back to a 4-3 for the remainder of the season. Pickett, Jolly, and Raji rotating at the DT. Kampman and Jenkins at DE, with Wynn helping out at times. Thompson maybe as a DE/pass rusher when he's healthy.

Like I said, it won't happen, but the irony is they would probably do better in a 4-3 with the personnel they have now.

I will agree to being disapointed with Kampmen's stats so far this year - but attribute it more to system than any loss of talent.

I must say I found the Packers coverage skills against the Vikes last night seriously lacking. Zone defense doesnt mean drop back and tackle the receiver AFTER he's made the catch in your area - it means hooking up with anyone in your area, sticking with them like glue and punishing them if in fact they make a catch....if you can.

Very disappointed is all I'll say.

The announcers kept saying it over and over and I agree as to why they don't just let Kampman rush the passer in obvious pass situations?

kampman is a far better player than what he is being used for, it almost seems at times like he is just a decoy which would be fine if the others were getting it done but they aren't.


gruden pointed out that over the last three years Kampy has had 37 sacks, that is alot of production that is not being used in this defense.

Kampman should only drop into pass coverage once every 4th or 5th time not only rush the passer every 4th or 5th time.

That last bit is simply untrue.

Granted the rest of your point might be quite valid. That type of thinking - the type which gets locked into a set way of thinking, a kind of brain freeze - is not at all uncommon. Even for people like Capers who endeavours mightily not to do that very thing [forcing the talent into the scheme], such things happen. It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with ego, at least with the general sense of that word being used, which is based pretty much on a mythology to begin with.

I don't want to target you, DaGunna - especially not since you write such sensible posts - but in general a lot of people throw out that word with regularity as if they themselves have any the less of an ego. It just reveals a huge misunderstanding on the parts of so many posters.

Another thing that I'd like to add is that we could use a little patience around here. Kampman is a serious student of the game, perhaps more so than nearly anyone else on the squad. He works really hard at understanding exactly what is happening on the field, in the most minute detail. It may just be that it will take him a bit of time - by which I don't mean 4 weeks, but perhaps most or all of a season - to really excel at the new job. We're too much of an instant results culture. Sometimes the dogs that take a while longer to train turn out to be the best dogs. Are human beings any less capable of such results?

His numbers so far this season. . .

Aaron Kampman - Green Bay Packers
21 tackles with 1 sack, no interceptions and 1 forced fumble.

How about the other prominent LOLBs in the league? How are they doing in comparison?

LaMarr Woodley - Pittsburgh Steelers
4 tackles with no sacks, no interceptions and no forced fumbles. He does have 1 pass defended.
Shaun Phillips - San Diego Chargers
17 tackles with no sacks, no inteceptions and 1 forced fumble.
Kamerion Wimbley - Cleveland Browns
21 tackles with 3 sacks, no inteceptions and no forced fumbles.
Manny Lawson - San Francisco 49ers
23 tackles with 0.5 sacks, no interceptions and no forced fumbles.
Jarret Johnson - Baltimore Ravens
14 tackles with 3 sacks, no interceptions and no forced fumbles.
Jason Taylor - Miami Dolphins
8 tackles with 3 sacks, no interceptions and no forced fumbles. He does have 1 pass defended.
Tully Banta-Cain/Pierre Woods - New England Patriots
20 tackles with 2 sacks, no interceptions and 1 forced fumble between the two starters.
Bryan Thomas - New York Jets
13 tackles with 0.5 sacks, no interceptions and 1 forced fumble. He does have 1 pass defended.
Clark Haggans - Arizona Cardinals
13 tackles with 1 sack, no interceptions and 1 forced fumble.
Mario Haggan - Denver Broncos
14 tackles with 1 sack, no interceptions and 1 forced fumble.
Mike Vrabel - Kansas City Chiefs
19 tackles with no sacks, no interceptions and no forced fumbles. He does have 3 passes defended.
Anthony Spencer - Dallas Cowboys
11 tackles with no sacks no interceptions and no forced fumbles. He does have 2 passes defended.

That's a total of 12 other LOLB starters who have averaged. . .

14.75 tackles per game.
1.2 sacks per game.
No interceptions per game.
0.4 forced fumbles per game.
0.7 passes defended per game.

Despite the switch of positions and learning a whole new scheme and set of responsibilities, his numbers are right in line with pretty much all of the other LOLBs in the league. It's been a slow transition, but he's not doing as poorly as many might think. He's looked confused, stiff and uncomfortable at times. . . but he's also shown some good improvement and that he's better in coverage than I expected him to be.

His versatility is something that the Packers should be using. He creates serious mismatch problems for an offense based on his pass rushing skills. I think that they should play several snaps per game in a 4 man front with his hand on the ground. Right side or left side. Just let him rush the damn quarterback and he'll actually get pressure and sacks. The rest of the LB stuff will come as he learns his reads and becomes more comfortable in the scheme. He's playing the run well and holds his side at the point of attack. He flows well and is improving his handwork and footwork. He fights through blocks and is still tough as nails. He's not as explosive as I'd like to see, but I think that he's still going to get better if the coaches get the system in place and teach him how to do his job more effectively. If anyone can do that, it's Dom Capers and Kevin Greene.

Ellis 26:

Come on, he was supposed to be our force on the outside to pressure the passer.

So far he has not done it.

Those are loaded comparisons because they do not list the guys who are the pressure lbackers.

If AK keeps it up he will have four sacks all year.

Which is ridiculous compared to 1.) WHat he did at DE and 2.) The Wares, Merrimans, Harrisons and even the demoted Greg Ellises of the NFL.

I don't see Kampman going anywhere

But I could see giving up a 1st for Peppers

Only if he would play DE

290 Could play that in this Defense

I could imagine Peppers and Raji and Jenkins next year as starters


But this year all 3 and pinkett and Jolly Nice rotation

Fair enough that he hasn't lived up to expectations, but lets call an apple an apple and compare the guys who play the same position. The LOLB simply does not have the same kind of impact that the ROLB does in a 3-4 defense. Expecting him to be more than any other is a little ridiculous IMO. The opportunities are different. They face more double teams, chip blocks and tight ends. AK has abilities that other guys don't by being able to get into a 3 point stance and strait-up beat his guy in a pass rush. But he has to be given that opportunity. So far he hasn't. There's a reason that all the elite guys that you mentioned play ROLB. They're more explosive and put up better numbers. That's what Clay Matthews was drafted to play. That's the reason that they traded up to grab him. He's supposed to be our Ware, Harrison, Suggs, Porter, Pace, Merriman, Dumerville and/or Hali. I think that it's completely reasonable to compare him to guys like LeMarr Woodley, Shaun Phillips and Mike Vrabel. All those guys have been impact players at that position. That's what kind of production we should expect from Kampman when the defense really starts to come together the way it should. So far he's in week 4 of the transition. I'm content to give him some more time. If he still looks as uncomfortable in week 10 then I'll worry about the current arrangement just not working.

Oh, and with the type of 1 gap penetration defense that we run, Julius Peppers would be an absolute beast at RDE for us. He'll cost way too much to acquire and pay long term, but I think that he'd be a good acquisition if they wanted to make it. And there's no way that I'd give up a 1st round pick for him based on the contract that they'd have to pay him. It devalues him severely. 2nd or 3rd I'd go for. . . but not for a 1st.

Greg Ellis played that position. Look what the did his last year in Dallas.

Vrabel is on the downside of his carer to say the least. AK is not.

Phillips does better with Merriman playing.

Finally, Mathews has not claimed that position yet. ANd in his limited time has not yet shown he can be the pressure guy.

ANd if he is not, and if AK is not, then who is?

Hawk and Barnett?

Hmm.

Greg Ellis did play that position. And he put up 36 tackles and 8 sacks. But, he was playing opposite one of the most dynamic pass rushers in the league. I'm willing to bet that without DeMarcus Ware he would not have been as successful. Period. In fact, before DeMarcus Ware got to Dallas he wasn't as successful.

It's a lot easier to get after the QB when the guy opposite you is getting as much attention as guys like Merriman, Ware and Harrison get. LaMarr Woodley is a great player, who is blitzed on a regular basis and rarely drops back into coverage. He's very similar to AK in body type and pass rush ability. He struggled in his first season switching from DE to LOLB, but became a regular starter last year and blew up with great pressure and big plays. Guess who was one of the guys working with him that offseason. . . Kevin Greene. Give it time.

This defense is still in it's infancy. I was hoping that things would be running a lot more smoothly and that we'd be getting better pressure on the QB, but it's still a work in progress. I'm frustrated by seeing AK standing at the line spying the RB or dropping back into coverage instead of rushing strait off the snap and learning how to use his strength and technique to beat the protection and force the QB into pressure and sacks. The plain and simple fact is that he's not being used effectively. We know that he's got talent to rush the passer and stop the run. It's on the coaching staff and scheme to put him into favorable situations. So far, they haven't been doing that. I'm still optimistic that AK will continue his development to OLB and start getting some time with his hand on the ground so that the Packers can get more pressure on the QB. It seems to me like the defense is trying to be too damn cute instead of just lining up and beating the opponent. If they want him to rush the passer more effectively, then they need to just let him rush without so many other responsibilities. Let him pin back his ears and go. They haven't done that. Instead, they rush Poppinga, or the inside backers or a cornerback. Which is fine. But don't drop Kampman back into coverage on those plays. Rush 4 down linemen and then blitz with one of those guys. Aaron Kampman should rarely (if ever) be dropping back into coverage on a 3rd and long situation. He shouldn't even be playing the run in those cases. He should just be rushing full steam. If he's not. . . then that's on the coaching. I saw way too many times where he should have been set loose, and instead he was held back. How does that help the team or his development? And how can we be critical of AK if he's not being allowed to rush the QB at key moments during the game?

You want more pressure on the QB out of AK? Keep 3 down linemen on the field most of the time to eat up blockers. Then rush 4 down linemen at least 7-10 snaps per game with AK rushing from a DE position with his hand in the dirt. Let him rush the QB from the snap of the ball on 90 percent of 3rd and long situations from either a DE or LB stance. Stop sending Barnett on a 3rd down blitz and dropping Kampman back into coverage. Cut him loose and let him go. He's playing the run and dropping back into coverage. He still needs a lot of work on his upright pass rushing technique, but I think that he'll improve and start contributing more as the season progresses. Unless those things start being added to the gameplan, I think that you'll see more of the same.

The beauty of the 3-4 is to rush LB's on every play 1 or 2. Last week and the week before we hardly rushed any. That makes the 3-4 ugly and pointless IMHO>

Demarcus Ware: 16 tackles, 0 sacks, 3 pdef, 1 ff

Shawne Merriman: 8 tackles, 0 sacks, 0 pdef, 0 ff

James Harrison: 21 tackles, 3 sacks, 1 pdef, 3 ff


Kampman really is doing pretty well. Sure, he's not getting the DE numbers, but he actually holds up pretty well against the generally recognized studs. Give him time, he hasn't been in this scheme that long.

It would have been nice to see Kampman going against Loadholt alot more in that game ,normally teams try to take advantage of a vet on a rookie matchup. I really hope that Capers rethinks this situation and try to use Kampman in a more effective way. I also think that GB should be throwing in some 4-3 in passing situations to get a front line of Kampman, Raji,Jolly and Jenkins to give the opponents something to think about.

I also agree with the post by Sinatra that Kampman does not take over games like some DE's can that is not the way Kampman operates as he does not have the physical abilty to do so but he uses his head, his heart ,his preperation and never takes a down off. With that being said is he going to paid huge money next year and would he be worth it. He is the model teammate with great work ethic but is limited from greatness by his physical attributes another words he is not a freak of nature.

I did notice in the queens game that Allen is very fast and they were stunting on his side alot and some of the sacks he actually came from his spot all the way to the other side to get the sack. That requires speed and the queens are used to playing on turf and I wonder how things will pan out at Lambeau as GB is a team built for grass and has historically had problems on turf .Anyway those stunts caused Wells, Spitz and Colledge problems and with all three in different positions because of Cliftons injury the queens game plan was pretty smart to attack GB in that manner.I just wish that Capers would have planned to exploited Loadholt to get at bert a few times.

Some people are trying to compare Kampan's stats from previous years playing in a 4-3 to now playing in a 3-4.

Not the same folks.

aInteresting discussion of options for Kampman by Bedard in jsonline.

Oct. 8, 2009 5:06 p.m.


In my story today about outside linebacker Aaron Kampman, I discussed at one point the possibility of the Packers trading him before the Oct. 20 trade deadline.

If they don't think he's a good fit for the 3-4 defense, it would make sense for the Packers to at least talk internally about trading him. The overriding issue is that Kampman will be an unrestricted free agent after the season.

Why not get something for him now rather than let him walk away?

But there's another possible course of action for the Packers in regards to Kampman, and I neglected to point it out:

They could place the franchise or transition tag on him.

If the Packers place the franchise tag on Kampman, they would have to pay him the average of the top five players at his position. That number was $8.34 million this year for a linebacker (it will go up for 2010). Interestingly, Kampman would get a slightly higher salary if he were still an end ($8.991 million).

If another team wanted to sign Kampman, they would have to surrender two first-round picks.

That's not going to happen. What is more likely is a team would work out a trade for Kampman. It's the same scenario the Packers went through with DT Corey Williams in 2008 when he was shipped to Cleveland.

A transition tag is worth the top 10 at the position ($7.48 million). But the Packers would only have the right to match the offer. If they didn't, the Packers would get no compensation.

Now, here's where things could potentially get tricky for the Packers.

With 2010 set to be an uncapped year, each team gets one additional transition tag. Teams currently have the option of using the franchise OR transition tag. In 2010, they could use one of each.

The Packers currently have four players that will become unrestricted free agents even though the years of service needed for that will increase from four to six seasons: Kampman, Chad Clifton, Ryan Pickett and Brandon Chillar.

(In an aside, Nick Collins would continue to be a restricted free agent in 2010. Think he wasn't happy he didn't get a contract extension this year? Wait until he gets a restricted tender. Won't see him until September.)

We'll assume the Packers, if they don't sign the players to an extension, will feel they can do without Pickett and Chillar given B.J. Raji and the Packers' depth at linebacker.

But left tackle is a different story. What has become abundantly clear this season is the Packers have no plans there beyond Clifton. Jamon Meredith figured to at least have a chance at playing in 2010 with a solid year of development. That went out the window when the Buffalo Bills signed Meredith off the Packers' practice squad.

So unless the Packers are willing to sign an effective left tackle in free agency next year -- they don't exactly grow on trees in the market -- or draft one high, the team could decide to go with Daryn Colledge, Allen Barbre, T.J. Lang or Breno Giacomini as their starter at left tackle in 2010.

(I'll let that settle for a second)

Or the Packers could face a very interesting dilemma:

Which player gets the franchise tag, Clifton or Kampman?

In other words, which player is indispensable for 2010?

Because the franchise tag at least guarantees that player being back. If you place the transition tag on, say, Kampman, a team with deep pockets in an uncapped year could easily price the Packers out of the bidding (like the Tampa Bay Buccaneers where Jim Bates is the coordinator).

(Another quick aside: Any team that advances to the divisional round of the playoffs this year would likely have a hard time signing Kampman. Under the "Final Eight" provision, the top eight teams couldn't sign a free agent unless they first got rid of player or players that would add up to the same amount of money. So that would potentially eliminate the Vikings, if they make it that far.)

So after all that -- and the Packers have to be playing out these scenarios amongst themselves -- the Packers could potentially find themselves right back where we are right now: facing the possibility of getting nothing for Kampman if they don't sign him to a contract extension before the end of the season.

So, with that information -- I know, it's a little confusing and not presented crystal clear -- what would you do if you were general manager Ted Thompson?

a) Sign Kampman to a contract extension now -- provided he and his agent would remotely entertain the thought (not exactly a given);
Trade Kampman this year;
c) Franchise Kampman and transition Clifton, putting him at risk to be signed elsewhere;
d) Franchise Clifton and transition Kampman with the mindset you'll match any offer, even with a poison pill;
e) Franchise Clifton, transition Kampman and then take your chances (with a third round compensatory pick as a consolation prize)
f) None of the above.

But that is the point.

If we are in a 3-4 do we keep AK even if he is miscast, or do we trade him to a 4-3 team to get a good pick?

Or if we keep him, do we need to play more 4-3 to utilize him more?

Many people here said Capers would use a lot of 4-3 to mix it up. He hasn't. Why not? What is wrong with:

DE Jenkins
DT Raji
DT Pickett or Jolly
DE Kampman

Go figure what is wrong with that as a change up.

They should be. He plays the sackmaster role in this defense. It's the same position as DeMarcus Ware, Shawne Merriman, etc.

The fact is, Kampman doesn't have great strength or moves - he's pedestrian in those departments. His production comes from the fact that he's technically sound, gets a good jump and gives it his full motor on every play. Playing in a two point stance nullifies most of his strengths. He still gives it his all, but it's futile because he doesn't have the tools to overcome blockers coming out of the two point stance.

He should be traded pronto.

It seems many are ignoring the (lack of) Safety play since week 1 when discussing the effectiveness of the 3-4. Bigby is no all-pro at this point but the defense played a lot differently with him in the game. Same could be said for Pittsburgh and their missing Palomalo. Oh, and BTW, PIT is also 2-2 having lost to CIN and CHI... hmmmm?

First of all the impact of Palomalo out of the Pitt lineup and our situation with Bigby is not close. Bigby has had his share of coverage issues in the past and being out of position, it should not impact our schemes that much. Its not like he was the second coming of LeRoy Butler out there.... And if that is the case where is the depth? Seems like that questions gets asked alot

Also is it possible, now that we are in week 4 that teams have some film on us and our gameplanning better to attack our defensive schemes? hmmmmmm. or is it possible after week 4 that Capers is seeing that there is a lack of talent on this team to run the 3-4 and he has dialed back?

Exactly. Nice post.

Both teams play the 3-4 and both are missing a starting Safety. That is the parallel I made. I know that you understand the importance of Safety play in the 3-4. I'm not proclaiming Bigby is Palomalu or Butler but he was the starting SS through all of the installs / transition to the 3-4, mini-camps, training camp, and the first game. You mention depth, PIT is feeling it without Troy as well.

Agree Jim that Pitt is feeling the imapct of Troy out but the drop off should not have been THAT major losing BigbyIMO.

Packinati:

Right, especially since he has not played like he used to since his injury. And even before the injury he was not in a class with Troy P so he should have been easier to replace.

The truth is that TT has drafted for safety almost as bad as OL or RB.

I have said it before, and I will say it again. He screwed up by trading down out of the first, when he could have had Ken Phillips. Who, if he had not been hurt this year, was headed for the Pro Bowl.

Our talent at that position is simply sub-standard. There is no other way to say it. When you take out your starter to play a guy like Bush, well that say sit all.

Here is the reality as I see it, they let Clifton go (Ala Wahle and Rivera) and franchise Kampman, then trade him for a 2nd round pick which TT parlays into a 3rd, 4th, and 5th where he gets a OLB, DT, and a Punter. Pick 1-7 will be used on a QB, more OLBs, a TE and some more WR. The Pack will wait for the FA feeding frenzy to subside, then pick meager rations off the scrap heap which they cut (Ala Duke Preston) during camp.

A DL of Jenkins, Jolly, Rajji, Kampman, Pickett may well put more pressure on the QB than DEs playing out of position. Trade Barnette rather than Kampman who is our most productive defensive plasyer with the exception of Woodson.
This grand joke of an experiment with TT and M3 has to end

Ray it may end after this season for MM & TT. If things don't get any better, they'll have to change. And I agree, with every game we play, the more I think MM & TT are big jokes.

This is not the truth.
It is your OPINION!!
(I wish some here would learn the difference.)
There were 6 total safeties in the 2009 Pro Bowl.
One was our very own Nick Collins.
By having one of the top 6 safeties,
it doesn' make sense to say TT can't draft safeties.
50% of our starting safeties are Pro Bowl quality.
That is not sub-standard.



Oh, I thought you were going to make it through a post without this comment.
I guess I'll keep waiting and hoping!!




"If things don't get any better",
we'll be 8-8 and I doubt any change happens.
They certainly won't "have to".

I guess this board would be boring if we didn't have differing opinions,
but why do the "haters" seem to be the ones spewing the same thing
over and over in every post?
Isn't there a anti-Thompson site they could go to?

Go Pack!!

I don't know if Official Brett Favre.com is accepting new users but that's your one-stop center for all your anti-Ted needs!

If you find 8-8 acceptable then yes there should be no changes. But that would then give Thompson and staff one winning season in 4 (not counting 2005 his 1st) I dont think 8-8 gets Ted or Mike canned BUT it will make the seat VERY hot in 2010. If we do finish 8-8 THEN there needs to be a much closer look at the overall talent and depth on this team.

I seriously doubt any Packer fan finds 8-8 acceptable. Why don't we try to wait and see how the season pans out before we declare them to end up 8-8 or worse?

Can you possibly read anything and not twist it?

Please show me where I said 8-8 was acceptable.

Sorry, I don't see TT or MM being let go IF we finish 8-8.
Didn't say I think we will be 8-8 or that it's acceptable.

I hope that is clear.

And I feel there is constantly a closer look at the
"overall talent and depth" on the Packers.
Every postion from President on down is always being evealuated.
Not just after each season.


Also you seem to think 9-7 is ok because it's a "winning" season
yet 8-8 is not because it's not ABOVE .500.
(this was brought up in another thread in reference to Bal)
I don't think either is good enough, but you have to look at
all circumstances when deciding what is good enough.

You don't approve of the job TT is doing.
I would like to see their record be better,
but feel they are headed in the right direction.

IMO -A change at this point would bring several more years of
mediocre or less play, whereas giving the curent regime a few more years,
just might reap great rewards.


Go Pack!!