Tough one to handle this week. I honestly thought this was our chance to break out, and we came out flat, setting the tone immediately with penalties and dropped passes (Finley and Jennings) on the first drive.

*The offensive line was just horrid today. The entire game changed when Clifton went out and they had to shuffle things up, but it wasn't all that great before that either. There's no consistent push in the running game, and Rodgers is starting to look more and more shaky in the pocket. Colledge vs. Odom was an abomination that would make Allen Barbre proud. This cannot continue.

*The lone bright spot on offense today was Donald Driver. Made some tough catches, got some yards after the catch, and had the DB across from him on his heels all day long, forcing three drive-extending penalties.

*Rodgers was hot and cold again today. On one hand, I feel his sense of pressure and mobility in the pocket has improved, but on the other hand, I feel he trusts his evasive skills too much and holds on to the ball WAY too long. I can think of three occasions where his taking a sack put the offense in a tough spot with long down and distance situations. We need to make things more manageable. It opens up the playbook and puts the defense back on their heels.

*As good as Driver was, Jennings was bad today. The drop on the first drive set the tone, and with the positioning of the CB on that play a circle route after the catch would have resulted in a big gain, maybe a touchdown. Apparently, he was responsible for the false start on the final play (or non-play) as well, though Hochuli did a pretty poor job of sorting that all out.

*The defensive line was just too inconsistent today. Jenkins showed flashes, including a great bull rush up the middle for a sack, but to let an average offensive line and Cedric Benson take advantage of them like today is inexcusable if we want to call ourselves contenders.

*Collins better not be out for long, because Bush and Rouse in the defensive backfield isn't going to cut it. Their miscommunication caused the Henry TD, and to me it looked like Capers really reigned back his play calling with those two on the field. I don't know what their reasoning was, but missing the talent of Anthony Smith in the defensive backfield looms large at this moment.

*Charles Woodson is the best CB in the NFC. I don't get a chance to watch Asomugha that often, so I won't venture into which is better, but Woodson is absolutely unbelievable. Player of the game by a large margin.

*A quiet bright spot has been Jeremy Kapinos. Though I was disappointed with his punt that allowed the big return prior to the last FG by Cincy, he's been punting well thus far this season.

*What's up with Crosby? This is past the point of worrisome. It doesn't matter if it's mental or physical. Both scenarios are frightening. Not having that extra 3 points completely changed the complexion of this game from the mid 4th quarter onward, given the Bengals with a 7 point lead instead of a 4 point league, and a 10 instead of a 7. Little things, gentlemen.

*Plays of the game: Woodson's read on the INT pick six.
Jenkins' pass rush move and bullrush for a sack.
Clay Matthews' nasty spin move on the Cincy LT to force a pressure.

Really a frustrating, disheartening game today. I'm surprised that the offense has put together two poor games in a row. Hopefully they can find their groove next week and we can get this thing going, otherwise, we're far from the playoff contender some have projected us to be.

What did you think of the LB play? I was at a sports club with multiple games playing so it was hard for me to key in on that position.

CM3 was a force today. He put some major pressure on the QB when he blitzed and made a great, athletic pass breakup over the middle. Kampman was a non-factor (though he did have a nice position in coverage on the aforementioned breakup by Matthews). Chillar, Hawk and Barnett were quiet, and seemed to be on their heels all day (as was evident by Benson's consistent strings of 6, 7, 8 yard runs). The only play I can remember from the 3 of them was Barnett busting through for a 1 yard tackle for loss, then doing his samurai thing.... with the game tied at 21. Nice.

Where's Desmond Bishop? He hasn't been utilized at all.

I know it's not popular but I have to believe that Bishop is either injured or not yet ready for the starting lineup. He had a great preseason but was it because he was going against the 2's-3's? Is he assignment sure? I also have to believe that these D coaches know how to evaluate the position play and if a change is warranted, they'll put the right players in there. We'll see if there will be any shakeup this week.

Green Bay has got to either find a place to play Bishop even if it requires moving another body around or trade him to someone else. He's either too good to sit or not good enough to start and should be traded while he has value.

OLine is really bad. Most have played together for awhile and the penalties along with the matador moves will never make it in the long run. Shorten the pass routes and run screen and draws until the cows come home. That w/ steady feeding of the run and maybe they will win more than 8 games this year.

We arent that good.

And we all better get used to it.

As hard as it is for me to say this, I think we have to go the route of 2007; running out of the shotgun most of the time, "abandoning" the run until people respect our offense in general, and keeping a tight end in to block. I also don't understand with this team why when one thing goes wrong that in turn causes more things to go wrong. On most good teams, if the defense can't step up to the plate or is having a bad game the offense will step in and score more points than allowed, the Saints are a perfect example of this, they know their defense is less than stellar but they have a fantastic offense that can come right back and score.

This team needs to be breaken down and built up again. Hopefully the breakdown started today. MM needs to push these guys in practice so hard this week they puke. No off day they are there every day this week in pads till they fly to St. Louis for the gane.

I agree. We need to spread people out to setup one on one situations so Rodgers can get some quick throws off.

Looks like MM is already on top of that. According to his post-game press conference on packers.com

"It's a normal progression and we will clean up the problems that we had today, we will clean them up tomorrow and I can promise you we will have a hell of a practice Wednesday".


I'm sure he won't be happy this week and some things will be emphasized and worked on. St. Louis will be a good game to start the bounce back.

Ive been hearing that song and dance from MM for a long time now.

Before the season, I came to the well...
During preseason, I fillith my cup...
After the preseason, I dranketh...
After this game, I puketh all my Kool-Aid back up.

With the exception of Barbre, we started the exact same starting lineup as we did last year, why on earth would anyone expect us to be any different?

The TT philosophy is that you can take average, young talent and coach them up to be championship caliber players. It didn't work last year, it won't work this year or next year or the year after.

Hate to bring people back to earth, but when you have average players you have an average football team. As long as TT is here we'll have an average football team.

It's only 1 loss in a 13-3 season. There will be 2 more losses this year but 12 more wins. The Kool- Aid will be getting swallowed with no problem before you know it. Hang in there.

(BTW- That was pretty funny!)

Yeah I'm sick of the talking my self too. I'm at the point where I dont care for it and they need to prove it.

Right after he missed a tackle on 3rd down that would have forced the Bengals to punt. Not nice. Barnett has all but been invisible so far this season.

And does anyone think it's time we got a legit running back? I've never been sold on Grant. I know the O-line is playing like crap, but sometimes the back needs to make something happen himself. We don't have anyone that talented.

Wow, after two games, you're throwing in the towel? Fourteen more to go. Time to take a big breath and say "Its a long season." Repeatedly, if necessary. After all, the Giants went 0-3 (I believe) to "start" the season two years ago, and then won the SB. The Packers are young, and they need time to get on their game faces. After all, they did beat the Bears- which is great. They lost to the Bengals? These things happen (unfortunately). Will it happen again? Probably. Its not as if the Bengals were the Lions. The Bengals are a respectable football team, unlike the current Lions.

As I recall he promised to clean up the mess from last week. Today was even sloppier and it all leads to him. The most disgusting thing is the Packers lost to a team that played even more undisciplined than them. How is that even possible? I have to agree with Luvda. This team has holes talent wise. But, bottom line: discipline begins with coaching and today was the ultimate failure. And to that end, by the time Slocum is finished fixing Crosby, he won't be able to hit a PAT.

Yep. And I just watched the Bears beat the Steelers. Strange league. I agree - don't throw in the towel just yet. Lot of problems to work out, though.

Overall it was just a frustrating day and not the start to the season I expected - even with the win last week. This too will pass! The Rams might just be what the doctor ordered to get us back on track.

Didnt say that but please stop the dramatics.

its not that hard to figure out where there team is going. its not hard to see this team is average. its not this hard to see that preseason means jack ****.

just wondering but when joe philibn said last week that the offense "just wasnt that good" did you post the same thing?

Does almost 7 million a year get Jennings 0 catches? or is it the 12 million in the first year of Rodgers contract that gives him the right to overthrow everyone?

Goes to show you how much of a mirage the preseason really is, eh?

Most of the problems mentioned here I agree with, some are little exaggerated, but that's to be expected after a tough loss to a team your 'suppose' to beat...and I use that term loosely, but, anyways...

Here's what I know ladies and gents, we're 1 'lucky'(yes, it was lucky how that play worked out) 50 yard bomb away from being 0-2.

Just face it, we're just not that good.

I'd be willing to bet this team gets into another dogfight next week with St. Louis.

Agreed.

Average at best.

I'm not ready to jump on that negative bus just yet and say we are not a good team. We have lots of talent but we are also very young. I will say we are not playing very well right now and are making way too many mistakes.

As for the Rams - they have scored 7 points in the first two weeks. If we get into another dogfight with them, then I just might sit next to ya on that bus!

Nice to have this forum to vent out frustration, BTW!

Hey if this is the bye week in 2 weeks and the Packers are 1-3 they it will be more time to worry. Right now they can fix things. Also at least I got 20 bucks out of the game today and Rivers and Gore and monster days for me in FF.

Agree. These areas need to be fixed. Nice post.

I know it is early, but it is how they lost that is depressing.

How long does that excuse get a pass around here? I'm just curious. Not meaning to attack you here, Cheesehead, but that excuse rears it's ugly head every time when we lose. I dunno about most of you, but that excuse just doesn't cut it anymore.

We're young.
We're talented.
We're making stupid mistakes, and MM repetitively saying: "We'll get 'em fixed", after a tough loss.

I see an undeciplined football team that gets pushed around at the line of scrimage and is highly inconsistent. It's maddening.

It's deja vu around here, the 09 Edition.

I want things to be fixed. I love my Pack, but how do they fix lack of talent on the O line. Short of drafting and F.A.?

I was drinking the koolaid in the preseason. No more. Offensive line is below average. Running backs are average. We will not be able to stop the run with our front 7. Hawk needs to sit. Kampman is not a LB. Rouse & Bush are lousy safeties. Our QB takes to many sacks and throws a wild ass pass almost every 4th quarter when we are behind. We will most likely finish 3rd in our division. It basically will come down to whether you can stop the run and run the ball. Don't see the talent there to do it. We have a GM who cannot draft OL and a coach who doesn't provide enough discipline. Another long year unfortunately. Lets not give Detroit their first win.

The only free agents TT brought in this year were a safety and an offensive lineman, both were cut. Here we are two weeks into the season and we're hurting at both those positions. How ironic.

Usually I can find some positives, but really we looked weak on both lines. When that happens, it's bad news for the future. The only positive I can imagine is that Raji will come in next week and bring some rest and life to the rest of the line.

As for the o-line, the only positive I see is Josh Sitton. He has been very solid so far, maybe our best lineman next to Spitz. I have no idea what might happen if we have to go with Colledge at tackle for a while. Yikes. I still wish we would have picked up Michael Oher in the draft.

Why is anyone surprised by this game ? TT and MM have been here for 5 years and we have the worse OL in the league to go with the worse starting RB in the league. Their answer was to draft a FB in the 5th round, a guard in the 4th and an OT in the 6th. And you wonder why our OL is abysmal ?

If Jon Runyan or Langston Walker are still available FA's then they should bring them in immediately before Rodgers ends up in the ER.

If you're going to build through the draft only, then you need better first day picks than Harrell, Rouse, Colledge, Spitz, Nelson, Hawk, Brohm, James Jones, Brandon Jackson, and Pat Lee. Our OL and DL got pushed around last week and they got pushed around this week. All the schemes in the world won't save you if you don't have the horses. They don't. TT and MM are in over thier heads. They've had ONE winning season since they've been here and that was because Favre had a great year.

MM might be a decent Offensive Coordinator but he's no head coach. People think last year was an aberration, it wasn't. The year they went to the NFC championship was the aberration. Did anyone see Joe Philbin's play calling ? Does Campen teach his OT's to move their feet on a pass rusher ?

Doea anyone think Ryan Grant could even make half the rosters in the NFL, much less start ? When was the last time anyone from our D put a lick on someone ? Bishop in preseason ? Oh yeah, he can't play because Hawk is taking up space, wasting top draft pick money. They put the screws to a decent player in Wells for money purposes but Hawk's total lack of athletic ability is overlooked because it would make Thompson look bad.

I mean, these guys felt comfortable with Barbre at RT ? Really ? That kind of judgment runs our team ?

I was discussing with an old Packer fan discussing Super Bowl Teams in the last 40 years. Almost all have one thing in common. A solid, cohesive O Line. Many times with Pro Bowlers. Green Bay in the '60s. Miami in the early '70's. Pittsburg in the mid to late'70s. S.F. and Dallas in the 90's etc. It starts up front, IMO.

I feel like a big dope guzzling all that Kool-Aid in preseason.
I agree stop with that we are young stuff, we have been the youngest for 4 years in a row now. That excuse is worn out.
M3 is getting old with we will fix that.

I'm just disgusted, maybe we can draft more potential next year.

Its cliche, but most games are won and lost in the trenches. They just are.

Don't feel bad 66. You're a die-hard Packer fan and we do some crazy things, but we love our Pack through thick and thin. Keep guzzling. We all do it.

Personally, I don't think MM is a good offensive coordinator at all. I'm starting to think all he's really good at is teaching quarterbacks, and I'm not sure if that's fully proven yet either.

I can't figure out why Grant and Jackson are the top two running backs on the roster. Jackson is always hurt and Grant is just not very good.

The o-line problems have gotten really, really old. Clifton and Tauscher were what held that line together during this "rebuilding" process, but the past two weeks have really shown how weak and average the rest of the linemen really are.

Hawk and Barnett are virtually invisible and just seem to play soft. Even if Bishop isn't fully assignment sure, his intensity and desire to knock peoples' heads off every chance he gets would be a welcome addition to the linebacking corps, and might serve to fire up the entire defense, plus I think he'd be a whole lot better in run defense than Hawk or Barnett at this point.

I think the problems of the past two weeks can be corrected, but right now it's tough to not be a little worried, especially since we always hear how things will be "fixed", and then the same mistakes often continue, ESPECIALLY the penalties. We'll see what happens with St. Louis next week. If it's another grinder, it'll be hard to no be worried about the rest of the season.

It's not an excuse. It's just the facts. Sorry.

We're a young team. We're making a lot of mistakes. We are playing like crap so far this season. I'm not ready to throw in the towel yet, though.

How was that play lucky? Jennings simply burned Vasher. It wasn't luck. Jennings is just ridiculously faster than Vasher. There is no luck in that. The Bears bit on the play fake and Rodgers hit Jennings in stride. Almost the same play that Favre hit Jennings on in 07 in Denver to win the game in OT. Was that lucky?

I was at the game and I must say we were dominated on both sides of the ball. Cincinnati is not a bad team folks. They have quite a bit talent and are healthy.
They need to shore up the line or we will be in for a long season because Rodgers wont be a part of it. I am far cry from throwing in the towel here we just came off a emotional game against the Bears and came out flat.

The turning point in that game was when the Packers were up 21-14 and it was 3rd and 34. The ball bounces the wrong way and wala you have the 1st down and tied at half. The Packers would have got that in great field position but as they say that is how the ball bounces some days.

One thing I will say is that the Packers are 6 to 1 in takeaways. If they keep that up we will straighten this out. Grants fumble was a killer however..

McCarthy needs to look in the mirror at himself also.

Except the play play last week Jennings was not the 1st option, Lee was

Not an end all be all, but I've been saying since the pre-season that these 3 things needed to happen

1. Wynn needs to be the starting RB. He hits the hole harder than Grant and is more elusive and has better top end speed(imho).

2. Chillar and Bishop need to be on the field the majority of the time as LB's. Whether that means starting or not. Those guys are playmakers on our D. Hawk looks terrible, and as always Barnett is making plays that don't matter (ala 5 to 7 yds. down the field).

3. Lang needs to be given strong consideration as starter at RT. I thought the whole line and Barbre again looked bad. Yes, it isn't just him, but he needs to ride the bench.



I concur about Collins. If he's out for any significant period of time, the D is in a world of hurt.


Clearly they took this team too lightly. They thought just by showing up at home that they had this game. But who knows, maybe an embarrassing loss like this will kick this team in the proverbial arse!!!

Nice perspective, and I agree. At this point, the better team won. Hopefully The Pack is a much better team in a few weeks.

Look, I'm like most of you on here that bleed green and gold but if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it's a duck. How many years do we sit idly by and watch the same mediocre line with a less than mediocre running back play every week? I am so tired of the rhetoric in regards to giving our team time. Guess what, the clock is ticking, and we're getting worse. MM says if you're not getting better, you're getting worse. Ryan Grant getting tripped up again by a shoestring tackle is not getting it done.
Look, I love the BJ pick, and even love the Matthews pick, but at what point do we criticize the people in charge about not addressing the OL and/or the RB positions? We have done SQUAT about the RB position since Ahman left us. Some of this can be attributed to the OL but I see AP getting yards and TD's every week with nothing there while our RB gets tripped up by yard lines. This season is just beginning but if we don't correct things in a hurry our franchise QB, and highest paid player on our roster, is going to get killed. We cannot be one dimensional and expect to be competitive. We have options in our passing game(Finley) but can't utilize them because our OL is awful.
Why was BJ inactive today after practicing all week? Our DL could have really used a few blows today, that's for sure. I have seen Barnett make one play this season so far, and he let everyone know it...because that's Nick being Nick. When does Bishop see the field? When does Bush NOT see the field?
For every play Rouse makes there is five plays where he is either out of position or misses an angle or tackle. Safety is another position that has been neglected in recent years.
What's with all of the dropped passes?
I'm trying to be the kinder, gentler fan but it's hard...so hard! When you sit there as a fan in the offseason and peg certain positions that could/should be upgraded and watch as no competition is brought in it's frustrating. Don't get me wrong, I like the direction we're going, but I feel that if we would have addressed these areas sooner we wouldn't have the problems we have now. I'm still trying to figure out why we have 3 FB's on the roster when we have other areas of concern. I remember Patty criticizing the FB pick basically asking why it was necessary, and I have to agree with her. That's all I have for now, good night all.

No team in the NFL should take any team lightly, that is on McCarthy if that is the case. As far as Wynn I say why not but at the end of the day you have to get some push up front, it was not there last year and its the same OL -1 so why should we expect different? This all gets back to what I have been saying for sometime. There is a big difference between depth and quality depth. Just look at Rouse, how many bad angles or times out of position has he been,? All of Thompsons 1st day picks should be paying dividends buy now as either quality starters or quality depth. Tale away Jennings, Rodgers and Collins you dont have much IMO

Not much to add unfortunately, gents.

Rough game. There's plenty of validity to both the, "We're not done yet!" and the, "We're completely F'd" arguments.

Not sure which we are.

I suspect we're in the middle - like last year, which, is pretty frustrating for us fans.

I will say this though, this year IMO, should be put up or shut up. The, "we're a young team" isn't an excuse anymore. If you refuse to add veteran talent and only build through the draft, it's simply not a viable excuse.

Secondly, McCarthy needs to stop the song and dance and deliver. This whole, look at me, I'm a blue collar, hard workin' dude that's not gonna take any crap and make this team good rah rah b.s. is just that. He needs to start using his noggin and start coaching like he did when he first got here. Like a coach who's willing to roll the dice. That is creative in his playcalling and one that coaches like he's got something to prove. Because truly, at this point, he does.

2007 is long gone.

That 13 win cushion is deflating in a hurry.

So any play in which the QB throws to a WR that wasn't the intended target is a lucky play?

Never said that, you made it sound like the play fake (holding the S you said) and pass to Jennings was the call,

I agree. The too young excuse needs to go out the door. The Colts are usually in the running for being the youngest team every year. This year is put up or shut up. I fear that all the talent on this team is being wasted because we don't have an adequate OL. Our OL situation is scary. You have to have at least two solid OTs in the NFL. Your QB will get killed if you don't. I fear that we don't have enough talent on OL. Something needs to happen. Either TT goes or Campen goes. If Thompson truly believes he has done enough on the OL then why is Campen still here. Why can Raji be a full participant in practice yet still miss the game? Montgomery and Wynn just aren't credible 3-4 DL. They get pushed around.