GM Notes:

1. This game came down the lines, the Bengals dominated, slamming the door on the Packers running game, and put pressure on Rodgers all game. The Packers need to get this fixed or the Vikings in two weeks will have Aaron Rodgers for lunch. Offensively, their line made Benson look like a pro bowler. Terrible performance by both Packer lines

2. Kuhn had a terrible game, missed a block that just about got Rodgers killed, and had a big penalty on a punt return.

3. The Bengals play Balt and Pitt twice a year, they know how to attack the best 3/4 defenses.

4. Rodgers can expect several late hit and roughing the passer shots this year. Team know whats behind him at QB.

5. Ive lost a lot confidence in Crosby, not sure whats happening there.

6. Special teams killed us. Missed field goals, huge punt returns. gotta fix it. Our punt return gunners weren't anywhere near the return man on some of those punts.

7. Offense just looks out of sync. Rodgers is high on his throws, dropped balls, penalties, o line getting pushed around.

8. Collins taken to the locker room again for the second time in 2 weeks.

9. Interesting stat on NFLN: The Packers haven't started off 2-0 for three years in a row since Lambeau was coaching. They had a chance today, and blew it.

10 lotta work to do that obviously wasnt fixed this past week.

11. After watching Benson destroy this defense, what are Steven Jackson and Peterson going to do???

Update: Clifton X rays were negative, calling it a sprain, Collins was a chest injury, no word yet on lost time for either.

Given all that, it's amazing the game was even this close.

In addition to all that, I'm beginning to believe our WRs are not all their cracked up to be. Despite Jennings not catching a pass this week, I think he's a legit #1WR and Driver still has some gas in the tank. But James Jones and Jordy Nelson have been nearly invisible.

Some of the sacks today were coverage sacks. Yeah, Rodgers is hanging onto the ball too long. He did last week, too. But it also begs the question, if he's holding the ball that long, doesn't that mean nobody is open? I thought our great advantage was that Jones and Nelson and Finley were going to be too much for teams' 3rd and 4th corners.

I have been wondering the same thing. Hard to tell when you can only wee what is happening at the line of scrimage, because the camera is focused there. I scoffed when ESPN's Kevin Seifert said MIN had the best WR's in the North, but through 2 weeks he is right. The oline has been bad, but the WR have been dropping easy balls and do not seem to be getting open...

Just very confusing to me so far.

Why do we have 3 FB's on the roster???

Why did we spend so much time trying to replace Wells with Spitz, when Wells wasn't our problem? And our O-Line is just terrible right now. Barbre? Sitton??? These are the guys we "fix" our O-Line with? Could we please really, no questions asked, FIX this problem? It's been an issue for how many years now?

Why do we still have no competition for Ryan Grant? Is he really that trustworthy as a #1?

Why is Jarrett Bush still on the roster? Are you seriously telling me keeping Antonio Smith was a worse idea then keeping Jarrett Bush (still don't know why we matched his offer).

Why are we carrying a ridiculous amount of cap-space right now? Was there really nobody in the free agent market that could have helped our team right about now?

Was BJ Raji really that injured that he couldn't play this week even though he practiced fully??? I think we could have used him!

Greg Jennings is supposed to be one of our best players? Where is he?




We have work to do. Definitely.

1. We couldn't stop the run.

2. We couldn't catch the ball.

3. We couldn't protect the QB.

4. We couldn't make our field goals.


What a piss-poor performance, at home, versus the Bengals.

That bothered me too. If he's too injured to go on Sunday why is he practicing instead of healing? We obviously could have used another big body on the d-line today.

GB is not an elite team right now, however CIN is not the bottom dweller they were being made out to be last week either. Not to say psycology determined this game, but CIN came off the kind off loss that messes with your head all week. GB did not dominate CHI but had to feel pretty good about the come back win. Fact is GB overlooked this team and paid for it as they should.

Other than that am stunned that the passing game is so weak right now. The o line is bad, but that does not explain all the passing woes. I don't know if Raji was not active today because he really was injured or if the team felt they did not need him after last weeks d line performance, but they do. Cedric Benson just ran it all over GB, that is very bad news.

I started to believe during the preseason that our young guys on the offensive line made huge strides and wouldn't be too bad going forward.... I was wrong, they stink liek they did last year, Rodgers is going to have happy feet, and scramble into the rush if he stays healthy....5 sacks by 1 guy!?!?!?!!

My concern is AR's health. He had taken a few good shots in that game and I'm not talking about just the sacks. He was getting hit a lot upon release.

3 FBs on the roster, and we still can't run the ball.

Grant: 46 yards
Rodgers: 43 yards

If Grant is still the starting RB on this team next year, I might have to return my Packers jersey.

I'm calling out Poppinga and Kampman. Has Kampman made a play in 2009 yet. I thought all I read was Kevin Greene raving about Kampman. AJ Hawk needs to make that tackle on a third and two. If teams are going to contiue to pound the ball against the Pack maybe it is time Mr. Bishop sees the field.

College good god man. Maybe it is time to try TJ Lang. After all can he be any worse. Raji and Brandon Jackson time to get out of the training room and onto the field your team need you.

I know he struggled today but Turner sounds good right about now.

Barnett made one play I think.

Just another quick thought. I do beleive that AR is to blame for some of the sacks. Still he already looks hesitant and scared out there from the hits he has taken. The way things are going AR will not last the season, and even if he did it may impact him long term. GB may feel good about its young QB now, but look at David Carr and others who simply were not protected.

So true...this offensive line situation is beyond critical right now.

He did. After missing a key third down tackle.

Hmmm... you'll return you Packers jersey. For what? A #4 Vikings jersey? This is NOT a good time to type something like that. The Packers lost a game, and didn't look very good (apparently). This is not the end of the world, or the end of the season. Lets all take a deep breath and try to relax. Things will sort themselves out, for better or worse. And we'll deal with it, and discuss it in a relatively rational way.

Not to be critical, but Barnett is virtually a non factor out there.

And here is Barnett's response to those critical of his play.
***********************************************************
Barnett falls under false impression
Published Sep 20 2009, 05:50 PM by Brian Carriveau
A simple search of "@NickBarnett" on Twitter reveals that a majority of fans are supportive of Barnett and encouraging him. But the linebacker also got a fair amount of criticism for celebrating after making a tackle for a loss in when the Packers were losing to the Bengals on Sunday. I was among those criticizing.

Barnett shot back to his critics in harsh fashion following the game.

Over the course of two tweets, Barnett wrote the following after the game: "Oh yea for everyone that had something to say after I celebrated for making a takle for lost KISS MY ASS... I was trying to get the defense fired up... And so what if I missed the takle before am I suppose to stay in a funk about it!?? Get a life (sic)"
************************************************************************

Hes the best "after the whistle" player in the NFL.

All I hear from MM is accountability amoung players. Time to get a healthy Bishop some reps. If Barnett is not making plays time to put someone in that will.

It's okay. Be critical. Barnett is a joke. He needs to spend less time Twittering and flapping his gums and more time trying to look like a football player.

I'm tired of this team constantly talking about their swagger, and their talent, and their potential. Shut the hell up and show it on the field for once.

Like Hawk, Barnett will continue to start just because he was a first round draft pick, regardless of whether or not he actually does something on the football field.

It is what it is.

I don't like saying I told you so, but .....

I was not impressed after we beat the Bears since I thought their turnovers and injuries really decided it. But some people thought different, and got on the McGinn bandwagon: SB all the way.

Well, if you can't beat the Bengals at home, hmm. Before the game, I said I thought we would win by ten, but if we did not, then we were in trouble. Well....

This team was both outcoached and outplayed today. How long does James Campen get to put together an OL? But granted, TT does not help much. How dare you go into the season with no back up to a 32 year old LT? When is the guy going to realize that we need to spend a number one pick on the OL someplace.

Another question: Does anyone believe that Ryan Grant is the answer at RB? When you get outplayed by Cedric Benson, what does that tell you?

On defense, does anyone think that Barnett and Hawk are worth what we are paying them? Something like 8 million. Is AK an outside LB? Or do we go back to a 4-3 which is what I think we are better suited for.

Finally, clearly the team has little depth at safety. Which is why I wanted to draft one this year.

Remember, this is the soft part of the schedule. So far, I think this is an 8-8 team.

Or, dare we mention it, a free agent...

Thanks, I needed a laugh after the debacle today. A free agent indeed. Wait, a pig just flew by my window, is that ice forming over there by "hell" ?

I'll tell ya' what Thompson will do.........he'll wait until Rodgers gets killed or turns into David Carr and then feign surprise with his idiotic "deer in the headlights" look that one of his second day scrubs didn't play up to his potential on the OL.

I don't buy that for one minute. If there is an upgrade then they'll play. This is about winning. Not about playing first round draft picks just because. These coaches want to win and to think that they are biased in their evaluations based on draft status is outlandish. It's about winning and putting those out there that give the team the best chance, is the goal, regardless of where they were picked in the draft.

If that's the case then why are Hawk, Poppinga and Barnett starting over Chillar, Bishop and Matthews who are clearly outperforming them?

TT decides who starts here one way or another.

TT decides who plays. It would be nice to think otherwise, but naive.

C'mon Lare, I know you know a lot and what does starting really mean? I would have to say that although Hawk is "starting" Chillar and Matthews have been playing quite a few snaps. I'd have to look but they may be playing even more snaps than who you've mentioned. Bishop? C'mon, he was playing high intensity against 2's and 3's. That'a big difference in the pro's and I know you know that.

AMEN TO THAT! The only thing that matters is the results... WIN!

I REALLY hate to say this, but is it possible the success of the offense in 2007 had more to do with Favre than McCarthy and Co?

Our O-line really isn't much different. Yes, we had Tauscher, but did Brent just audible out of all the crappy playcalling of McCarthy?

That's what I'm starting to think.

His quick release also did a lot to mask the flaws of the unit as a whole. How often did we see Favre three-step drop and fire a slant in two seconds or less? How often have we seen Rodgers do the same?

From 2007 to 2008, our sack rate went from 3.2% to 6% (good for 14th in the NFL, after ranking first in 2007). You have to go back to 1996 before you can find the Packers ranked lower in sack rate, and 2001 before you can find them with a lower raw sack rate.

To make a long story short: Brett was preventing a lot of sacks, by getting rid of the ball before he was sacked.

It's interesting to think about how many interceptions you have to throw, before you lose the benefit of cutting your sack rate in half. I'd bet that it's a lot.

Edit to add: I suspect that Aaron needs to improve in both his pre-snap reads, and his willingness to fire the ball to a target who isn't wide-frigging-open.

[quote name='Packfan_Euro_Trash' date='Sep 21 2009, 04:40 AM' post='266386']
GB is not an elite team right now, however CIN is not the bottom dweller they were being made out to be last week either. Not to say psycology determined this game, but CIN came off the kind off loss that messes with your head all week. GB did not dominate CHI but had to feel pretty good about the come back win. Fact is GB overlooked this team and paid for it as they should.



If that is the case then that is on McCarthy.

I don't believe teams overlook other teams in the modern NFL, not if the coaching staff wants to keep their jobs. Working NFL coaches have been around long enough to know you can never overlook a team.

It just seems like a statement thrown out there by media types.

I don't think they overlook teams, but I do think they get overconfident. They go out there expecting to roll over their opponent - but when the Bengals turned around and hit them in the mouth, they staggered back wide-eyed and got taken to the cleaners.

This team does too much talking off the field. They need to realize that they've done absolutely nothing.

Most of it is on MM, still every players head is different. I am very concerned, but this loss will turn into an opportunity of sorts. The Rams are a bad team, but any 0-2 teams is dangerous like and desperate much like CIN was last week. Plus it is the GB's first away game. Then of course have the Viking game after. I truly believe we will have a very good idea of what this team will be doing at the end of the year going into the bye week. My assessment;

Win both 3-1: They respond to tough situations and this team is going to the playoffs.
Drop one 2-2: Finish middle of the Pack. They come close to a playoff spot, but get bumped from costly division losses.
Lose both 1-3: We in Packer nation start looking at the 2010 draft prospects.

I admit these predictions are not much of a stretch, still don't think will be able to predict as well with just 4 games in the other teams in the league. I do feel this team will get better as the season goes on regardless, but they can not afford to coast early.

There's plenty of blame to go around for yesterday. Our running game was pathetic, our pass blocking was terrible, the defense couldnt stop Benson. Special teams couldnt make kicks or stop punt returns, and penalties galore. McCarthy should be on a warpath this week.

A common theme so far in both games is our offensive line is terrible. You cant give up sacks in numbers like that and have your QB pressured like that. The fact Rodgers hasnt turned to the ball over yet is amazing. Gotta get that OL fixed in both running and pass protection.

Couldn't agree more.

It might not be a popular stance, but I put a good share of blame on Rodgers as well. Yes, he was pressured a lot, but there were times I felt he had time and just held the ball way too long.

Everyone stunk, in every phase of the game. It's hard to find a positive out of anyone.

Next week will be telling.

I find it hard to believe the Packers would be overconfident after the Bears game. The Bengals beat the Packers in every area of the game I don't think there was any overlooking going on by the Packers. What you have is a team doing a very good job of exposing another teams weaknesses. And it won't get any easier; smartly coached teams look at film and hit your weaknesses relentlessly until you correct your weak points.

I have been in MM's corner since day one, but I have to admit that I am starting to have my doubts. Lots of teams don't have pro-bowlers on their lines, but good coaches get the most out of them. We keep hearing that these guys are talented, then how come the coaches can't get them to play their butts off? Why did he keep James Campmen? He didn't have the OL playing all that great last year.

How can you have your team come out flat? There were some comments after the game that the practices didn't go well. What does that mean? You keep at it until they are doing it properly.

The players talk about accepting responsibility for their poor play, but no one is stepping up. That falls on the coaches.

Why do we expect so much from MM? Look at his history before Green Bay. Look at his most recent history on San Francisco. He is an average coach that got a break to make into a Head Coaching role.

The real problem on our team lies in the talent. We have some good players, but there are serious flaws in the foundation of this team.

A Head coach cannot fix that.

1 of 3 things happen after week 2 in the NFL:

The 2-0 teams print playoff tickets.
The 0-2 teams panic.
The 1-1 teams go back to the drawing board.

We need to be drawing a lot.

Is Jagodszinski available?

I wasn't able to watch the game and I just finished a replay of the game-today. No doubt the Packers had a bad game-but that is not the end of the world gans-there are 14 more games yet too show improvement! The 9-4 defense is new and playing without Raji can't or shouldn't be overlooked! BLF footnall victorys starts up frount ,and thepacker's D got their noise blooded, and I believe there is time enough to correct the Defense problems. Fact is normally takes a little time to develop a solid 3-4 defense....have faith. Youthful players just read and believe too much local news clippings, maybe they'll learn it only counts when it show-up on the field. After the pasr 2 games-they wakeup and stepup...one can hope.

The OL a whole nother story, and I am concern, TT just doesn't get it...and he may never will...the guys in the trench are as important, if not more important as your skilled player-go out and find them. Better win at least 10 games in 2009 or my support for the GC and GM will demish greatly. Go Packers-5 year is rnough too rebuild a winner!

I disagree. It is very hard to bench high draft picks who you are paying tons of money to. Its true TT did not draft Barnett, but he resigned him to an overinflated renewal. What do you say in that kind of situation? We are wasting millions on one guy when his back up is just as good and make a tenth of what he does?

Plain and simple: TT made two mistakes in drafting Hawk as high as he did and in signing Barnett to an inflated contract.

Hard to admit that.

But there is something else involved here. I actually think that Hawk and Barnett, when all is said and done, will be shown to be not well suited for the 3-4. They are not downhill players. They are more catchers than attackers, which I think does not suit the 3-4 that well. And if you scheme them that way, as Cincy did, you can eat up yardage. I mean, Cedric Benson?

Don't think the Rams are not watching tape as to how the Bengals made Benson look like a Pro Bowl player. Especially when they have a guy who is twice as talented as him.

I won't give up on this team until we have our 8th loss of the season. Detroit is a non-factor except the times we play them. Chicago is a bipolar team that will have around 10 wins or 7. Minnesota is dangerous, but unstable and if Peterson goes down, which I think is bound to happen on some freak extra effort play this year, they won't have the edge that has won them the last two games. Everyone said preseason performance is overhyped, still that doesn't mean we lack talent because we look lost when other teams try for real. Each week some players will play better than the week before and others may play worse, as it works out that's true of all teams. I predict we will lose more games this year we thought we were a lock to win, but to make up for that I see us rising to the occasion in games like Pittsburgh, at Minnesota, Dallas, and Arizona. So in defense of my expectations of this teams talent I give you my prediction for the rest of the season in support of their talent.

Played
Bears- W
Bengals- L

Remaining
Rams- W 33-24 We don't play perfect, but improve wrapping it up in the early 4th.
Vikings- W 34-30 Favre gives us two and its just enough as we steal another division game
Lions- W 42-23 Team starts to play with some confidence and the line actually tricks us into thinking their gelling
Browns- W 27-14 Browns have fallen apart as a team and give up early which helps us win easily
Vikings- L 42-31 They shock us after a 4 game winning streak in a game they need at our house
Buccaneers- L 24-16 Hangover game where the oline gets thrown back to reality
Cowboys- W 38-31 The key game of the season-beating a rival thats killed us- leaves us 6-3 with tough games left
49ers- W 28-13 Defense has found itself in a big way. Holding Gore who has huge numbers by this point in the year.
Lions- L 38-35 The lions get the best game of the year from Stafford versus us and CJ looks like Moss running past us
Ravens- L 31-27 We play good, but so do the Ravens and they beat us in the last 2 minutes.
Bears- W 37-24 We go into Chicago and do what we should do...beat the bears
Pittsburgh- W 21-20 Rodgers has his 3rd 4th quarter comeback win of the season
Seattle- W 35-21 We take care of Green Bay west knowing that we need to win out
Arizona- W 44-34 Packers need win to guarantee playoffs and defeat Arizona at the end of the year like the Vikings couldn't a few years back

You can say what you want, I see 11-5 from this team

I like the optimism here but I just dont see it with this Oline. We just gave up 5 sacks to Antuan Odom! Now we have 2 games vs Jared Allen and the Williams boys, one vs Demarcus Ware, one vs Patrick Willis, one vs the Ravens, another vs Ogunleye, and one vs the 2009 Steel Curtain!!!

If the Oline doesnt drastically improve there in NO WAY Rodgers makes it through half the season, let alone all of it.

Do you really think Capers would have a hard time benching people? The guy that played the most against the Bears at LB was Chillar. I don't know what it was against Cincy, but I highly doubt an old timer like Capers that has basically been given free reign on D will have trouble putting different guys on the field if he thinks its warranted.

Chris, I mean Ayt, I think you are wrong.

Just think BJ Sander for one.

How about Justin Harrell for another.

Repeat: It is hard to admit you blew a high draft pick.

As per Capers, anyone who has ever been involved in a hierarchical bureacracy--which I work in-- knows how they work.

The orders come down from the front office. And everyone else plays in lock step. Very few people ever fail to fall in line.

Very good example: the whole Favre imbroglio. TT made the decision he was not coming back, and everyone from Murphy down to Campen toed the line. It didn't matter if they thought it was a good idea or not, they were in sync. Its the way those things work. Down to the point that when the Commish made sure Favre came back to GB, TT sent the word that he was not allowed in the locker room with his old pals. And so presumably the coaches, security guards etc. made sure he was not allowed entrance. Then MM delivered the final message for TT.

This happens every day in these situations.

As per Capers, look where he was the last couple of years and what he was doing.

TT runs a tight ship. Ask James Jones.

Care to elaborate on this?