I am in a carryover league where we get to keep 8 players. I need a second quarterback behind Jay Cutler. (I kept him before he became a Bear) The three qbs that may be available are:

Donovan McNabb (kind of a media circus with Vick in town)
Carson Palmer (coming back from a devastating injury)
Matt Schaub (injury prone, but looks good when he plays)

McNabb may be gone as I pick 8th. Its possible he may be there. Any thoughts guys?

go with mcnabb

if hes gone, its almost a toss-up. I would tend to put palmer a little higher than schaub.

Eli Manning is also available, but he is pretty vanilla as far as fantasy numbers go.
I was thinking Palmer also with Coles as their number two receiver behind Cinco. We will have to see how the chips fly.

Id go with McNabb but as a backup any of them would be good to have.

you should cut jay cutler though... cuz he sucks now that he doesn't have any receivers with the stinkin bears. And you won't have to betray your packer fandom when you start him against the pack.

First off, Palmer is NOT slightly ahead of Schaub. Schaub is a #2 QB. Palmer is bonafide, #1 QB and most likely to finish in among the top 5 or very close to it.

Second, I rate McNabb slightly ahead of Palmer. Granted, this is based off my rankings I made before Vick and I'll revisit him but I see no reason how it's going to hurt McNabb in value. I've got McNabb having a season of 3975 PaYds-25 TTD-13 INT-130 RuYds.

People are freaking out over Palmer's injury for nothing. This guy immediately sat out the season after finding out how serious it was and let his own body heal it which is the best way when possible. Because surgery has a tendency to make it fragile. All reports I've seen and heard is that Palmer is 100%. Not 90% and not 99%, but 100% healthy. I saw no problems with him in the preseason game. I've got a stat line for him as 3850 PaYds-28 TTD-16 INT-40 RuYds.

Third, if you get one of these guys as your backup with Jay Cutler being your starter, Palmer or McNabb or no longer you backup. I've got Cutler just BARELY cracking the top 10. And that doesn't mean a thing this year because the QB crop is VERY, VERY thin. If you don't get a top 10 QB this year, you'll most likely be having an inconsistent one driving your team.

McNabb first...Palmer second. Both should be starting, Cutler is a low end #1 QB. The first 2 guys are high end #1 QBs. Schaub is nowhere close to any 3 of those guys.

EDIT: Also RamRod, Coles won't have a better season then Chris Henry. He may start 1 game because of the money they paid for an old receiver like him, but Henry will take over. A LOT of people tend to forget how good Henry is. He's back, his past is supposedly behind him and he's going to have a monster year. Ochocinco and Henry will both have 1,000 yard seasons. Coles may get 600 yards. Coles isn't the guy replacing Houshmandzadeh, it's Henry and you'll barely notice TJ's gone.

I'd rank them McNabb, Schaub, Palmer

McNabb has a lot of very shiny weapons, a decent offensive line, and plays in an offense dominated by the passing game with a very creative coach.

Schaub I'd rank slightly higher than Palmer. He's playing in what could be a very explosive offense with Johnson, Walter, Owens, Slaton and decent WR and RB backups. His offensive line is probably no better than 20th in the NFL but I'd take it any day over Cincy's. He gets a tag for injury history but he hasn't missed any more games than Palmer and he's not missing games for being a pansy rather than for illegal hits. I like his supporting cast better than Palmer's, he plays in a dome and his matchups in weeks 14-16 (playoff time) appear favorable (at this time): Home vs Seattle, @ STL, @ MIA.

Palmer is a good QB and had a couple good seasons but over his last 18 games he's had 21 TD's and 22 INT's, he's playing behind an offensive line many think is one of the 3 worst in the NFL, with their potential starting RT not even signed yet, his star receiver is a nutcase, as is Henry (although both talented nutcases) and I have absolutely no faith in their running game with Benson. I also think his schedule is potentially more difficult than Schaub's having to play BAL and PIT 4 times. They end @ MIN, @ SD and KC at home (potentially a cold, nasty day in CIN)

BTW Cutler plays GB @ home, @ BAL, MIN @ home so he has a potentially very difficult playoff run. I certainly don't think it unreasonable that any of the above QB's will actually become your #1 during the season.

How you could rank Schaub ahead of Palmer is beyond me.

Schaub has been a major disappointment in his time at Houston. Palmer is very under rated. His 2nd, 3rd, and 4th seasons were top 5 caliber. His 4th season, his last season played, was cut short 12 games because of his injury.

As to his receivers are nut cases, most receivers are. That doesn't detract Palmer's fantasy value. They're still going to play at a high level regardless if they think they're a "black mexican" (from Ochocinco's Twitter thing).

Cincinnati is a very scary team considering Ochocinco and Henry play at high end levels. It doesn't hurt that they now have Coles to compliment. I would say Schaub's weapons on offense a little better then Palmer's but one thing Carson has working for him that Schaub doesn't....Palmer is an elite, pro-bowl, quarterback. Why people believe Palmer is nobody now because of 1 season where he gets hurt compared to his 3 very good previous seasons, puzzles me.

Sure he had 20 interceptions in 2007, but that was the first time he didn't have a running back. Now, whether you're a fan of Cedric Benson or not, the guy did a pretty good job behind a patched offensive line. Over 750 rushing yards in 10 game starts last year and he'll probably will crack a 1,000 yards with 16 starts this year, which will definitely help Palmer. But even if Palmer has 20 INT again this year (I highly doubt that), good thing fantasy is easier on INT then real life is. Most leagues charge -1 or -2 points for interceptions, that barely effects your team at all. Now if it was a higher penalty sure, there's concern, but most fantasy leagues are ran like that.

And as to basing rankings based on who they play around playoffs?

Pointless.

There is such a thing as over analyzing in fantasy football and that's one of them. You should know the NFL is very parity-driven league and teams turn it around just like that. I don't care if you're playing the Lions or Steelers at the end of the season, that never should effect how you rank a player. And you shouldn't really rank a player based on their schedule anyways for fantasy. Look at their past, their team and a few other things like trends. That's it. Anything else is over board.

I stand... McNabb #5, Palmer #6, Schaub #11

Guess I wasn't really trying to change your opinion. You base your decisions on your opinions...I'll stick with mine.

And how you think the comparison isn't even open for debate is seriously beyond me.

And in MY opinion Schaub is poised for a breakout season and I will rank him higher than Palmer. I like Palmer as a QB - please point out in ANY of the above posts that Palmer is deemed a "nobody"??? I rode him to a championship in 05-06, but I think Schaub will be better this year. Had Schaub played all 16 games last year his numbers would have been statistically similar to Palmer's best, as well. (which last occurred 06-07).

Palmer is a couple years removed from a great season. Again - 21 TD's/22 INT's last 18 games for Palmer 29/24 over his last 2 seasons with a similar supporting cast and a star WR questionably on the decline.

I simply do not share the same affinity for Henry as you. He hasn't even clearly won the 3rd receiver spot over Caldwell - although I would think he will. He also boasts 107 total receptions over 47 games spanning 4 years. In my book he's right on par with Jerry Porter - oozing with talent unfulfilled. It would be great if this was his breakout year ala Antonio Bryant last year, but I'll let someone else take that chance.

I have absolutely no faith in Cedric Benson and I'm staying away. I recall Samkon Gado having a great run with the Pack once...once....

I don't like Palmer's offensive line, have no faith in his RB's, don't like the fact he is currently wearing a walking boot, do like his receiving corps of Johnson, Coles, Henry but happen to like Schaub's much more and believe Andre Johnson is in his prime. AJ is unquestionably NOT a nutcase, nor is his complement in Walter.

As to scheduling...please note when I said..."appear favorable (at this time)". There's no question teams change year-to-year hence the "at this time" note, but if you are ranking two similar players then it becomes important to look at every factor involved and far from pointless (as you can look at the team, their past, and a few other things like trends)

Umm...I guess my case is rested.... Donavan, Schaub, Palmer

Guess I wasn't really trying to change your opinion. You base your decisions on your opinions...I'll stick with mine.

This isn't a matter of changing someone's opinion, it's about laying out your points for everybody else to read which is what a forum is for. You don't have to tell me its your opinion, because obviously it's your opinion since your posting it. But if you make an opinion in a forum, be ready for a debate. And that is what is occurring right now.

please point out in ANY of the above posts that Palmer is deemed a "nobody"???

Nowhere. I was implying what a lot of people around the fantasy football atmosphere are thinking of Palmer nowadays. Which is nothing, people seem to have forgotten about him.

Had Schaub played all 16 games last year his numbers would have been statistically similar to Palmer's best, as well.

Schaub's 2008 season projected over 16 games: 4,426 yards - 21 TD - 14 INT = 275 standard fantasy points
Palmer's 2007 season (statistically his worst year): 4,131 yards - 26 TD - 20 INT = 281 standard fantasy points

29/24 over his last 2 seasons

Not to forget that includes last season in which he only played 4 games. I would say that's a little skewed. His last 2 FULL seasons, 54 TD and 33 INT.

with a similar supporting cast and a star WR questionably on the decline.

I would have to say Chad has a couple more seasons under his belt. He was obviously effected by the torn shoulder labrum last year, no signs of trouble this year, reports are good, so far it's more encouraging then questionable.

I simply do not share the same affinity for Henry as you. He hasn't even clearly won the 3rd receiver spot over Caldwell - although I would think he will.

Hmm? The guy is most likely going to beat out Coles for the #2 spot at one point during the season according to several things I've read. Coles will start to justify his contract, but Bengals can't play around for long in that division.

He also boasts 107 total receptions over 47 games spanning 4 years. In my book he's right on par with Jerry Porter - oozing with talent unfulfilled. It would be great if this was his breakout year ala Antonio Bryant last year, but I'll let someone else take that chance.

The difference between Jerry Porter and Chris Henry is that Porter actually got many chances to start. Henry meanwhile has always had to sit behind 2 very good receivers. But instead of skewing the stats, how about saying of those 47 games he played in, he only started 12 of them. In those games where he actually got to start, he caught 25 receptions for 490 yards which is a 19.6 yards/rec average with 3 TD's.

It's time for Henry to shine finally after having to battle with off-field issues in which he served a suspension for.

I have absolutely no faith in Cedric Benson and I'm staying away. I recall Samkon Gado having a great run with the Pack once...once....

I'm not even saying myself Benson's going to have a year like Gado had. Hell, he only averaged 3.5 yards/carry last year. But, that 1,050 yards with 3.5 average based on 300 carries can at least keep the teams paying SOME attention to him. At least CIN has someone that can at least do something and not those pitiful performances in 2007 by Rudi Johnson and Kenny Watson (?).

don't like the fact he is currently wearing a walking boot

Because of his 1st injury in his pro career in which he's fully recovered from?

As to scheduling...please note when I said..."appear favorable (at this time)". There's no question teams change year-to-year hence the "at this time" note, but if you are ranking two similar players then it becomes important to look at every factor involved and far from pointless (as you can look at the team, their past, and a few other things like trends)

Yeah, like I said, a few other things. Not schedule. Over the many years of fantasy under my belt, that's the one thing I've learned not to pay any attention to. Strength of schedule in the preseason means nothing to fantasy. It is in fact a crap shoot to adjust player rankings on it.

Defintely nab Palmer and you'll thank us all at the end of the year.

Where I've seen him going in drafts is absurd. The man, as Vots already stated, can be a Top 5 QB. I just traded Brady for S.Jax and Cooley in a PPR Keeper because I knew I could get Carson at my pick in the draft (This was a bare-bones team I inherited, BTW, the starting WRs was Donnie Avery and Santonio Holmes. Yeah. I know.)

I digress... but that's HOW confident I am in a rebounding Carson Palmer.

If you draft Schaub, you better draft a competent replacement. My guess is, he won't make it through all 16 games. But I do like him as solid #2.

And McNabb obviously, a solid #1 as well. Just prefer Carson over Donovan.

I'd make the assumption that if two people are taking the time to write this much garbage about ranking three players - they both have a lot of fantasy experience under their belts and probably take it entirely too seriously. (sorry honey, I'll be off the comp soon!) I've learned to pay attention to everything, including SOS. You can weight the data however you'd like. We are projecting everything in fantasy football as well as "real football." I can research the teams and watch them and project who I think will perform well and who I think will not and make the same assumptions about team performance. There are certain teams I do not historically want to be facing in the playoffs and don't want to be facing outdoors in December. For example: Looking at trends..BAL and PIT both have defenses that will kick your a**. I'd like to avoid them.


Additional notes: In the 10 full games Schaub started last year he averaged 290 yds/game and 1.5 TD's. I expect the TD's to increase this year. He also has a lot of continuity playing under the same offensive coordinator and returning all 11 starters on offense this year. I also have yet to find a site in which Schaub was not among the top 7 pts/game scorers from last season.

FWIW Here are some rankings by a few sites I looked at quickly tonight to help in your decision RamRod.
These rankings are pretty well indicative of most of the fantasy rags at the bookstores as well.

Rankings of McNabb, Schaub, Palmer respectively:

Rotowire: 6 -- 8 -- 11
FantasyGuru: 7 -- 11 -- 13
NFL.com 10 -- 12 -- 11
FoxSports 7 -- 12 -- 15
ESPN 10 -- 9 --14
CBSSportsline 8 -- 9 -- 12

I'd make the assumption that if two people are taking the time to write this much garbage about ranking three players - they both have a lot of fantasy experience under their belts and probably take it entirely too seriously.

First I'm a fast typer. So I do have the tendency to type a lot. But if you want to call it garbage, fine. But my garbage has helped a lot of people out the past 3 years on these boards. Sure I take fantasy football pretty serious, but I play in high stakes leagues and I'd like to keep my investment (and more).



And that's why I'm posting so much about making Palmer a higher ranking, because to many people are writing him off just because he was out with an injury all last season.

Easy now Vots. There was no personal attack there. I agree that your garbage is incredibly helpful...even life changing. When people post for help they are probably looking for help and you offer great opinions. Understand when I refer to your info as "garbage" it is simply a term of humor.

Mine still looks like garbage and smells like garbage -- so it is what it is, but I cherish it greatly in my own mind.

Sorry, it's just hard to read people over the internet. That's what these are for.

Very good analogy, thanks!! I am also hearing good things about Henry. Now with Favre coming back that is another qb that should be in the mix. I would put him third behind McNabb and Palmer. I'll let you guys know who I picked on Sunday.

Well McNabb fell into my lap.I took him over Carsen Palmer. Schaub actually went 2 picks before mine.
With my next pick I took Bernard Berrian over the likes of Antonio Bryant and Desean Jackson. Then I took Ryan Longwell followed by Pittsburgh's defense.
Other players I took were Kyle Orton who may be a bargain in the 12th round, Hayward-Bey, and Lesean McCoy.