Compare these two partial drafts.:

Packers 2006 first three rounds:

2006
1 OLB A.J. Hawk GB (S)
2 OT Daryn Colledge GB (S)
2 WR Greg Jennings GB (S)
3 LB Abdul Hodge CINC
3 OG Jason Spitz GB (S)

Rams 2006:

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/0...-at-the-post-3/

"They had three No. 3s along with a first and second. However, none of those players is a quality starter and some are not even on the team right now. Here are the names and draft rounds: 1. CB Tye Hill, Clemson; 2. TE Joe Klopfenstein, Colorado; 3. DT Claude Wroten, LSU; 3. LB Jon Alston, Stanford; 3. TE Dominique Byrd, USC. "

Hill and klopfenstein remain with the team as does Wroten who is still on the reserve/suspended list"NFL suspended Rams DT Claude Wroten one year for violating the league's substance abuse policy".

"That’s five picks that might have produced five starters had they been used correctly. If the Rams had been better at the draft, they might not be in this mess."


Hill: "In 2008, in four starts, Hill totaled 20 tackles, 2 pass deflections, and a forced fumble. Hill tore cartilage in his knee forced him to sit out the rest of the season after playing only four games."

Klopfenstein part-time starter 2008.

Wroten: Suspended 2008

Byrd was out-of-football in 2008. Recently signed by Arizona.

Alston on the Raiders including part-time starter 2008.

Although for certain the Packers are neither immune from injuries or suspensions.

And to be fair three have started. Its pure conjecture what Wroten would have done had he not been suspended.

Personally I think the Rams woes go much deeper.

But thought this was/is an interesting exercise in compare /contrast.

Extremely important. You want 2-3 eventual starters at least out of each draft.

Look at our own example and how it created a couple lost years:

1 Nick Barnett Oregon State
3 Kenny Peterson Ohio State
5 James Lee Oregon State
5 Hunter Hillenmeyer Vanderbilt
6 Brennan Curtin Notre Dame
7 Chris Johnson Louisville
7 DeAndrew Rubin South Florida
7 Carl Ford Toledo
7 Steve Josue Carson-Newman

1 Ahmad Carroll Arkansas
3 Joey Thomas Montana State
3 Donnell Washington Clemson
3 B.J. Sander Ohio State
6 Corey Williams Arkansas State
7 Scott Wells Tennessee

Strangely enough:

Kenny Peterson may come into his own with Denver this season.

Hunter Hillenmeyer summarrilly cut by the Packers has been a long time starter for Chicago.

Chris Johnson who battled injuries with the Packers and was out-of-football is getting another shot with Oakland this year.

Ahmad Carroll, the much troubled one, is with the NYJ.

Joey Thomas amazingly is with the Miami Dolphins.

Itll be interesting to follow what they do this pre-season.

A gentle suggestion: I believe Hillenmeyer was being put on the Packers practice squad, and was picked up on waivers by the Bears. This upset me even at the time, since I thought he would eventually become known as "Hunter-Seeker" of the QB. Oh well.

Carroll has indeed hung around- but never earned his high draft status. Also, weren't Carroll and Thomas in a well publicized tiff during training camp?

Kenny Peterson, from Ohio State, if I remember correctly, sank to the third round, after being projected as a first to second round pick. A bit undersized, he well might fit into Denver's DL. I wish him success- unless he is playing the Packers.

I must agree, those are two horrible drafts. 2009 looks much better. By far.

All true. But...

Kenny Peterson has never done anything of substance in the league.

The Bears had been trying to replace Hillenmeyer for years.

Chris Johnson was bad, bad, bad, then okay.

Ahmad Carroll is still bad.

Wait, what? I can't believe this about Joey Thomas. Seriously? That's sorta hilarious.



The point is, none are good/great players. What's worse is that in a few of those drafts we traded up for these types of players and still struck out. Peterson comes to mind. There was such a free-handedness to the draft, that it almost made it seem like they didn't care for it.

Drafts make up the core of your team. Bad drafts can have a lasting effect, especially if you draft #1 overall and take a bust qb. It sets you back 2-3 years or more. If you can't grab 3-4 quality guys in a draft then I think you'll see a bad effect, especially on a team that doesn't participate in FA. This year we got 2 guys in round 1 that will contribute a lot right away. Also, I figure either Lang or Merideth (or possibly both) will figure into the starting lineup by the end of the year. My bet is Lang as I think Merideth will wait a year to start. You also have Johnson who figures to get a lot of playing time right away and on special teams. At the outset it looks like a very good draft. Time will tell.

I don't quite see your point. If the "comparison" is just to show that the Packers 2006 draft turned out better than St Louis's did then, yes, that much is obvious. If it's to explain why the Rams are coming off a 2-14 season, well, like you say, that goes much deeper — and 6-10 isn't a record to boast about, either. If it's yet another TGFTT (thank God for TT) thread, then yawn.

In reply to the title of the thread, I'd make the obvious point that the draft is differently important to different teams in different situations. In the Packers' case, the aim of the 2006 draft (find some warm bodies to fill out a threadbare, 4-12 squad) was quite different from, say, this year's, or 1997's. That said, the principle never wavers far from: find the best and most suitable players for your coaches to work with.

Clichéd though it may sound, it really is little more than a crapshoot: no team gets the draft right year in, year out; every GM blows picks; and to rely on the draft to turn your team around is to invite disaster. To be consistently successful, GMs depend on one thing and one thing only: the coaches they employ.

Here's the real difference between the 2006 Packers and Rams. Colledge and Spitz and Jennings have played in the same offense since they were drafted; for the same coaches; with the same partner (Driver) or partners (Wells, Clifton, Tauscher). Hill and Wroten are on their third head coach; Klopfenstein already on his fourth different offensive playcaller. During their brief careers, the Packers' youngsters have tasted highs (a championship game at Lambeau) and lows (the Superdome?); the Rams' draftees have gone 3-15 in their own division — the putrid NFC West.

Success in the NFL is a mysterious blend of drafting, training, scheming, learning, team-building, confidence-building, hard work and good fortune. Organisations have to balance creativity and consistency, competition and stability, personal prerogatives and professional ones. They call it a 'culture'. The Rams have not managed to create a successful one. But before blaming Hill and Klopfenstein, try to remember how bad Ryan Pickett looked in blue and gold.

I wonder why that is, because in theory, if the team with the #1 pick were to throw away that pick, they'd basically have the same draft picks as the team with the #32 pick (which doesn't typically set back the SB champs 2-3 years). But you are right that blowing a top pick will kill a team for several years, and I think it has to do with two things. First, the contract can take a big bite out of a team's salary cap. Second and probably more prominent, most GM's don't want to give up on someone that was supposed to be a star and is looking like a bust, so they'll hang onto the guy, keeping him in a starting spot he doesn't deserve, while constantly talking about his supposed potential that no one has seen a glimpse of since his college days.

Ammek:

"If it's yet another TGFTT (thank God for TT) thread, then yawn."

LOL ROTFLMAO

No offense intended but no one and I mean no one ever accused me of that. And Im quite sure Ive never wrote or would ever write such a "thread".

"If the "comparison" is just to show that the Packers 2006 draft turned out better than St Louis's did then, yes, that much is obvious"

That was all except it wasnt "obvious" to me until I looked at the two together and added some IMHO illuminating information not in the article I quoted and linked.

Was it already "obvious" to you? Then your way out of my league.

Tell me then which team had the better 2005 draft? Because its not "obvious" to me until I see the two side by side and check out the players bios.

If you know these "obvious" things off the top of your head it would be quite useful for me to know. I could then just ask you w/o wasting time searching for and reading material that you are I presume able to instantly provide.

Otherwise I dont quite see the point.

I thought my "point"(s) were quite clear.

Sorry if they were not.

Ill try harder .

NeuBrew:
"Wait, what? I can't believe this about Joey Thomas. Seriously? That's sorta hilarious."

Well here it is:

http://www.miamidolphins.com/newsite/team/...asp?docid=33162

Name: Joey Thomas
Height/Weight: 6-1, 195
Position: CB
Born: 9/29/80
College: Montana State '04
Acquired: FA, '08
NFL: Fourth Season
Dolphins: Second Season

"PRO
Signed with the Dolphins as a free agent on February 8, 2008 ... Originally was a third-round draft choice (70th overall) of Green Bay in 2004 ... As a rookie with the Packers, played in 14 games, all in a reserve role ... Dressed but did not play in one game and was inactive for another ... Recorded 15 tackles, two passes defensed and a forced fumble on defense ... Added six stops on special teams ... Posted a season-high five tackles on defense, in addition to a forced fumble, in 45-17 Monday night win over St. Louis (11/29) ... Forced fumble occurred on the Rams’ first series of the game when he stripped Isaac Bruce of the ball following a reception, and Ahmad Carroll recovered and returned it 40 yards for a touchdown to give the Packers a 7-0 lead ... Saw action in a reserve role in First-Round Playoff game vs. Minnesota (1/9/05) and was credited with two tackles on defense ... Played in the first six games of 2005 with Green Bay, including one start ... Collected 16 tackles and three passes defensed on defense ... First start of NFL career came vs. Cleveland (9/18) when he recorded four tackles ... Sustained a head injury in the game and was inactive the following week vs. Tampa Bay (9/25) ... Tied a career high with five tackles vs. New Orleans (10/9) ... Was waived by the Packers on November 2 and then claimed by New Orleans ... Went on to appear in five games, all in a reserve role, with the Saints ... Was credited with one special teams tackle ... Was in training camp with the Saints in 2006 before being waived on August 29 ... Was in camp with Dallas in 2007 before being waived on September 1. "

My excuses, stick, I was reading more into your post than you intended.

I'm still not sure of the value of judging any one draft by itself — it's not clear (to me) that one "bad draft" sets you back 2-3 years as OH claims, nor how long it would take for any one "good draft" to have an impact on a team's performance. For example, the Packers' 2005 draft now looks good (Rodgers & Collins) but for the three previous years it was, in fact, fairly useless — netting us one average-ish safety and a couple of backups. Yet Lambeau hosted the Championship Game without much contribution from the class of '05 (or, indeed, '07).

Rams' coaches don't have four years to wait for a draft to mature. The Ed starts emptying, the coaches get desperate and then they get fired. The owners want out. Things fall apart.

Ammek:

"I'm still not sure of the value of judging any one draft by itself "

Very good point.

Also I think you should beware who is doing the judging.

What is their purpose? What axe to grind?

Also IIRC this team just started rebuilding last season after a disasterous, injury riddled 3-13 season in 2007 when it was one of the oldest teams in the NFL trying to improve on 2006's 8-8 record. In fact IIRC again many had them picked to be in the playoffs in 2007.

And if you look at their roster they have very little pre-2005 draftees which wasnt a bad draft year four players are starting from that draft class a 1st, 2nd and 2 3rds.

Before that three players remain after the recent release of LB Tinamosa a 2003 2nd rd pick and leading tackler of 2008.:

2004 1st rd- RB Jackson (starter)
2002-7th rd- LS Massey
1998- 3rd rd- DE Little (starter)

So while the draft class of 2006 has had its troubles and no doubt has set the team back the issue is much, much deeper for St. Louis as I alluded to earlier.

So after further reflection and review I still have to agree with the point made above by Ammek.

More info to go with the above posts.

http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/bernies-e...ams-revolution/

On the 2006 picks:

"Some younger veterans aren’t locks to be playing for the Rams in ‘09. TE Joe Klopfenstein is a longshot to make it to the opener, and at some point CB Tye Hill, the former No. 1 draft pick, will have to show that he can stay healthy and make plays."

On the roster in general.:

"Counting those who finished last season on IR, the Rams have subsequently released, traded or declined to re-sign 15 players who were age 30 or older.

That’s right, 15 thirtysomethings are gone from 2008.

That list includes Torry Holt, Orlando Pace, Drew Bennett, Trent Green, La Roi Glover, Fakhir Brown, Corey Chavous and Jason Craft. Several full-time starters were part of that group.

As the 2009 roster sits right now, the Rams have only six players age 30 or over: QB Marc Bulger; DEs James Hall and Leonard Little; LB Chris Draft; S Todd Johnson; and K Josh Brown. Two others — snapper Chris Massey and TE Randy McMichael – will turn 30 during the 2009 season.

That’s why Tinoisamoa was let go. He was decent enough, but wasn’t going to get any better. He was limited by size. GM Billy Devaney and coach Steve Spagnuolo would rather see what some of the young LBs could do, whether it be Larry Grant, Chris Chamberlain or David Vobora."

It started slowly in 2008 and has escalated.