PackerChatters: Was Tillman Murdered? - PackerChatters

Jump to content

  • (3 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Was Tillman Murdered? AP Gets New Documents

#1 User is offline   Terry Icon

  • Pro Bowler
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 4,124
  • Joined: 04-August 06

Posted 27 July 2007 - 08:16 AM

http://www.editorand...t_id=1003617692

QUOTE
Thursday 26 July 2007

San Francisco - Army medical examiners were suspicious about the close proximity of the three bullet holes in Pat Tillman's forehead and tried without success to get authorities to investigate whether the former NFL player's death amounted to a crime, according to documents obtained by The Associated Press.

"The medical evidence did not match up with the, with the scenario as described," a doctor who examined Tillman's body after he was killed on the battlefield in Afghanistan in 2004 told investigators.

The doctors - whose names were blacked out - said that the bullet holes were so close together that it appeared the Army Ranger was cut down by an M-16 fired from a mere 10 yards or so away.

Ultimately, the Pentagon did conduct a criminal investigation, and asked Tillman's comrades whether he was disliked by his men and whether they had any reason to believe he was deliberately killed. The Pentagon eventually ruled that Tillman's death at the hands of his comrades was a friendly-fire accident.

The medical examiners' suspicions were outlined in 2,300 pages of testimony released to the AP this week by the Defense Department in response to a Freedom of Information Act request.

Among other information contained in the documents:
  • In his last words moments before he was killed, Tillman snapped at a panicky comrade under fire to shut up and stop "sniveling."

  • Army attorneys sent each other congratulatory e-mails for keeping criminal investigators at bay as the Army conducted an internal friendly-fire investigation that resulted in administrative, or non-criminal, punishments.

  • The three-star general who kept the truth about Tillman's death from his family and the public told investigators some 70 times that he had a bad memory and couldn't recall details of his actions.

  • No evidence at all of enemy fire was found at the scene - no one was hit by enemy fire, nor was any government equipment struck.

The Pentagon and the Bush administration have been criticized in recent months for lying about the circumstances of Tillman's death. The military initially told the public and the Tillman family that he had been killed by enemy fire. Only weeks later did the Pentagon acknowledge he was gunned down by fellow Rangers.

With questions lingering about how high in the Bush administration the deception reached, Congress is preparing for yet another hearing next week.

The Pentagon is separately preparing a new round of punishments, including a stinging demotion of retired Lt. Gen. Philip R. Kensinger Jr., 60, according to military officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because the punishments under consideration have not been made public.

In more than four hours of questioning by the Pentagon inspector general's office in December 2006, Kensinger repeatedly contradicted other officers' testimony, and sometimes his own. He said on some 70 occasions that he did not recall something.

At one point, he said: "You've got me really scared about my brain right now. I'm really having a problem."

Tillman's mother, Mary Tillman, who has long suggested that her son was deliberately killed by his comrades, said she is still looking for answers and looks forward to the congressional hearings next week.

"Nothing is going to bring Pat back. It's about justice for Pat and justice for other soldiers. The nation has been deceived," she said.

The documents show that a doctor who autopsied Tillman's body was suspicious of the three gunshot wounds to the forehead. The doctor said he took the unusual step of calling the Army's Human Resources Command and was rebuffed. He then asked an official at the Army's Criminal Investigation Division if the CID would consider opening a criminal case.

"He said he talked to his higher headquarters and they had said no," the doctor testified.

Also according to the documents, investigators pressed officers and soldiers on a question Mrs. Tillman has been asking all along.

"Have you, at any time since this incident occurred back on April 22, 2004, have you ever received any information even rumor that Cpl. Tillman was killed by anybody within his own unit intentionally?" an investigator asked then-Capt. Richard Scott.

Scott, and others who were asked, said they were certain the shooting was accidental.

Investigators also asked soldiers and commanders whether Tillman was disliked, whether anyone was jealous of his celebrity, or if he was considered arrogant. They said Tillman was respected, admired and well-liked.

0


  • (3 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Other Replies To This Topic

#2 User is offline   Heatseeker Icon

  • Hall of Famer
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 7,000
  • Joined: 06-September 06

Posted 27 July 2007 - 08:47 AM

Geez..It just sucks for the family to have to get constantly put through this.... No closure whatsoever.
0

#3 User is offline   title12 Icon

  • Veteran
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 825
  • Joined: 08-August 06

Posted 27 July 2007 - 09:15 AM

It still appears to be an accident. I was at that hospital three weeks prior and know the medical parties involved. Standard procedure for questionable medical findings. I believe Pat's grieving mother is being a little bit of a finger pointer. A lot of accidents happen on the battlefield. It sucks, people make mistakes, QI occurs, and people try to move on. Is there a law that demands full and open disclosure of details instantly 100% of the time? The Officers tried to hide, spin, and delay the truth. They made an on the job mistake. I don't mean to be insensitive but I doubt she could do a better job out there. I just hate wild speculation that liables people with criminal questions.
0

#4 User is offline   ricky Icon

  • Pro Bowler
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 3,298
  • Joined: 04-August 06
  • Location:Harlingen, Texas
  • Interests:Reading, gardening, FOOTBALL

Posted 27 July 2007 - 09:48 AM

QUOTE (title12 @ Jul 27 2007, 10:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It still appears to be an accident. I was at that hospital three weeks prior and know the medical parties involved. Standard procedure for questionable medical findings. I believe Pat's grieving mother is being a little bit of a finger pointer. A lot of accidents happen on the battlefield. It sucks, people make mistakes, QI occurs, and people try to move on. Is there a law that demands full and open disclosure of details instantly 100% of the time? The Officers tried to hide, spin, and delay the truth. They made an on the job mistake. I don't mean to be insensitive but I doubt she could do a better job out there. I just hate wild speculation that liables people with criminal questions.


The military lying? The administration lying? Heavens to Betsy! Of course not! These are all honorable people who have nothing to hide. If you believe this, I have some swamp land in Florida I'll sell you real cheap- relatively speaking. Or a bridge in Brooklyn. Take your pick.
0

#5 User is offline   title12 Icon

  • Veteran
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 825
  • Joined: 08-August 06

Posted 27 July 2007 - 10:44 AM

QUOTE (ricky @ Jul 27 2007, 12:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The military lying? The administration lying? Heavens to Betsy! Of course not! These are all honorable people who have nothing to hide. If you believe this, I have some swamp land in Florida I'll sell you real cheap- relatively speaking. Or a bridge in Brooklyn. Take your pick.


This not a matter of me being naive. I know a little bit about this.

"Military" and "Administration" are institutions that last time I checked do not "live, walk, and talk". That is the problem with discrimination and unfounded speculation. But I'm sure most average citizens have a study in ballistics. rolleyes.gif
0

#6 User is offline   R man Icon

  • Pro Bowler
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 3,357
  • Joined: 05-August 06
  • Location:160 miles SSW of Lambeau

Posted 27 July 2007 - 11:17 AM

QUOTE (Heatseeker @ Jul 27 2007, 11:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Geez..It just sucks for the family to have to get constantly put through this.... No closure whatsoever.



Totally agree with you heatseeker......
0

#7 Guest_Tooner_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 27 July 2007 - 12:13 PM

The History Channel had an excellent presentation of what supposedly happened.

Let's assume their account is close to being the truth and it was an unfortunate accident where the people involved were scared and initially lied about what actually happened.

Because people did try to cover it up, you will have a group out there that will never let it rest because they will never believe the government. You also have anti-Bush, anti-war, anti-military people using it as fuel for the fire so facts are being distorted for various agendas.

It's become another Grassy Knoll/Area 51. It's another soap opera that anti-whatever people can latch onto to prove their twisted theories.
0

#8 User is offline   Heatseeker Icon

  • Hall of Famer
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 7,000
  • Joined: 06-September 06

Posted 27 July 2007 - 12:25 PM

QUOTE (title12 @ Jul 27 2007, 01:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This not a matter of me being naive. I know a little bit about this.

"Military" and "Administration" are institutions that last time I checked do not "live, walk, and talk". That is the problem with discrimination and unfounded speculation. But I'm sure most average citizens have a study in ballistics. rolleyes.gif


Not saying whether yourself or Ricky is right (though Ricky certainly had the funnier of the two..lol) but even if you were in the Military at the time, wouldn't you have to be one of the ones who was actually there, or part of this potential coverup to actually know what REALLY happened? That's why it's so messed up IMO. If there is no cover up, the media is still going to push it, and if there is, no one is every going to admit. Just drop it and let the family get on with their damn lives. I'm sure the last thing they want to read when they log onto ESPN is how close in proximity the bullets in their Son/brother's head were and how it seems "odd"
0

#9 User is offline   title12 Icon

  • Veteran
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 825
  • Joined: 08-August 06

Posted 27 July 2007 - 02:43 PM

QUOTE (Heatseeker @ Jul 27 2007, 02:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Not saying whether yourself or Ricky is right (though Ricky certainly had the funnier of the two..lol) but even if you were in the Military at the time, wouldn't you have to be one of the ones who was actually there, or part of this potential coverup to actually know what REALLY happened? That's why it's so messed up IMO. If there is no cover up, the media is still going to push it, and if there is, no one is every going to admit. Just drop it and let the family get on with their damn lives. I'm sure the last thing they want to read when they log onto ESPN is how close in proximity the bullets in their Son/brother's head were and how it seems "odd"



Your right, only the soldiers who were right next to Pat and the officers who controlled the info Really know exactlly how the botched events evolved.

What I can tell you is that special forces operate in a veiled culture. How many people do you want knowing the details of your nakedness?

If something was systemically wrong it would not have happened overnight. Most everything is on the level and if it wasn't I wouldn't tell you. smile.gif
0

#10 User is offline   Woodson21 Icon

  • Veteran
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 255
  • Joined: 04-April 07

Posted 27 July 2007 - 04:36 PM

I wouldn't be surprised if someone shot him over jealousy. Here's someone who joined the army and was making very good money playing football, someone might have been jealous and shot the guy, or they could have been a 9ers fan.
0

  • (3 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users