[Arrigo]

Well, after taking some time off (to re-charge my batteries) I started to think about the players Ted Thompson has drafted in the past 3 years and I see a common thread when it comes to the offensive players that he intends to have a major role (or starting spot)...almost all played in a version of the WCO or in a ZBS.

Let us go back to his drafts for the Packers:

2005

1.) Aaron Rodgers- Cal- Jeff Tedford runs a version of the WCO.

2.) Terrence Murphy- Texas A&M- Another school that ran a version of the WCO.


2006

2.) Daryn Colledge- Boise St.- They do not run the WCO, but they do use the ZBS

2.) Greg Jennings- W. Michigan- They run a version of the WCO.

3.) Jason Spitz- Louisville- His school didn't run the ZBS or WCO.


2007

2.) Brandon Jackson- Nebraska- They run the WCO

3.) James Jones- San Jose St.- They run the WCO

4.) Allen Barbre- Missouri Southern St.- They use a ZBS.

5.) David Clowney- Virginia Tech- They do not run a WCO.

6.) Cory Hall - Boise St.- They don't use the WCO, but he was a LB in college.

7.) Clark Harris- Rutgers- Played in a ZBS scheme.


So this leads me to think that Ted Thompson, Mike McCarthy and the staff would rather have players come in that are already have some idea what the offense is about and be "a head of the curve" so to speak. It work well last year with Jennings and Murphy had all the skills in the world and was starting to get more time when he got injured. That is why, if you put all YOUR PERSONAL FEELINGS AND FAVORITE PLAYERS ASIDE (when it comes to who the Packers "should have drafted") the picks make sense and should not be a major surprise to those who follow the Packers closely.

Ted Thompson's plan is really easy to see. Build through the draft, do not over spend on "fringe" FA's, resign your "core guys" and draft players that fit what you are doing now. Is it a popular method? NO, well not to fans and pundits, but it is the "right way" to go. I cannot be to upset about him not signing certain players, because Thompson is building the Packers for the long haul, not a quick fix. Yes it would be nice to see Brett Favre hold up another Lombardi Trophy, but at what cost? The Packers future?! I would rather see the Packers go on a run like the Steelers of the 70's and win multiple titles for a long, sustained period of time, not another 1 and done like the past few champs (the Buccaneers, Rams, and Steelers).

The bottom line is the Packers under Ted Thompson are being built on a strong Offensive and Defensive line....hard hitting, hard nosed defensive players...a sound game...and a timely passing attack. I could see the Packers improvement as last season progressed and I believe the staff and team will continue to grow together and learn form past transgressions. With only 1 "major" Packers FA to resign, Corey Williams, (which is not to much of a "need" because of the drafting of Justin Harrell) the Packers look to be in good shape in 2008, not to mention a lot of cap space to lock up certain players long term or reward players for their contributions and efforts.

I don't see this as the 70's and 80's all over again...I see it as building your team through the draft and being fiscally responsible. Ted Thompson's plan is not fan friendly, but if the end justifies the means...well Thompson would have proved his doubters wrong and made ALOT of Packers fans happy.

[LMG]

Awesome. Great. Thanks for sharing.

So what is on this Packer draft profile of your's?

You can read this years information in Patty's Draft Report.

[morango]

Joe - I'll admit to being one of your detractors just based on all the "insider" stuff you pull out, but this is an excellent and well-written viewpoint on TT's possible srategies in the last three drafts. I also happen to think there's a lot of truth in the post. Thank you for writing it and thank you for posting it. By the way, I'm one of the few fans who has been absolutely pleased with the entire draft since day 1.

I hereby apologize for all the times I've called you a pretender.

[the monkey soul]

LA: I'm sad that this debate has to be left at us agreeing to disagree.

But it just blows my mind that you think that teams in the NFL use one type of blocking exclusively.

[Be_Here_Now]

Not making me feel better, Arrigo.

Drafting players to fit a scheme is a very slippery slope to be treading on.

At this point, the only team that has shown any sustained success with the ZBS is Denver. Atlanta is trying to get rid of the scheme, and has now found themselves saddled with one-dimensional personnel that is going to take time to rebuild.

The more we keep drafting players based on how they fit a certain scheme, which so far has proven zilch, the bigger a hole we dig for ourselves if it ends up not working (as the Falcons have found out).

In essence, Ted Thompson is living and dying by the ZBS.

monkey soul: If you wish to disagree with Patty, that is your perogative. But there is a difference between stating your opinion when it is appropriate for the thread (and being done with it), and just ragging on her any time she posts. Let it go.

if zone blocking doesn't work, i think we're pretty screwed for awhile anyway. we would probably have to get an entire new offensive line, rb, and te and thats if Rodgers pans out. we might as well draft guys that fit the scheme.

also, its worked well in atlanta, their running game has been great even without vick's numbers since they put it in.

[eire5199]

LA, I understand your concerns about zone blocking, and you've articulated your point well.

I guess I just don't see us drafting a bunch of small, light offensive linemen.

Colledge is 6'4" 305, Spitz is 6'3" 300, Moll is 6'5" 304, and Barbre is 6'4" 300. Certainly not the big maulers like some teams like, granted. But not small men either. I think we're on par with other teams there, really.

Of this year's top guard prospects, only 5 of the top 20 (on the list I happened to look at when making this post) weighed more than 320 pounds. Most of them are in the same size range as the guys we've drafted the last couple years.

[Patty]

it is not so much as size as it is skill sets. Look I can show you 2 players. They both stand 6-4 and weigh 310 bnut when you look at them you see a difference. One might be much wider and the other more stocky up high. They do not carry their weight the same and they do not play the same style of play.One player will have much better foot speed and the other more power.

When you look at OL you look at their skill sets. Whether they block straight on or they have lateral slide and shuffle blocking skills. Just becasue they are the same size does not mean they play the same. The Packers are locking themselves into certain skill sets of players that will make it difficult to do much more than what they were brought in for. I think this is what has LA concerned. I tend to agree. I look for an OL that has that slide potential and can shuffle down and out but also has enough power to handle the brunt bull blast of DL.

Mike Wahle is a great example used. He was so multi layered in his skill sets that he could operate well in a zone blocking scheme but he also had great athleticism to play other schemes. As the Falcons discovered drafting players to fit a specific scheme can lead to some horrible situations.

As the person who used the Bear Bryant statement I say this: I want a team that builds their schemes around the talent on the team. I do not want to see waste created because a coach has a scheme in mind and refuses to acknowledge he has a different skill set players.

I also do not want to build a team with 1 dimensional type of players.

[eX Oh]

I guess I am missing the part where we say...


Player X is suited ONLY for the ZBS. If we go away from it, Player X will be no good. Here is why.


So let's stop talking semantics and armchair theory and get down to business.


I think some of us are making a BIG assumption that TT is drafting for scheme and not getting the best football player he can get. By most accounts it seems to me that he is drafting guys that are hard-working and love the game of football. Guys that have had success playing football. Our lineman draftees have been athletic guys one and all.

Can Colledge not pull? Can Spitz not slide? Can Jackson not follow a pulling guard?


I think some of us like to take a concept and blow smoke into it until it is a big fat balloon.

Here's my pin.


LA have you thought of a trite term to refer to these so called one-dimensional draftees? It's really all that's missing from this witch hunt.

Maybe we should draft some big fat guys that excel in an Iso scheme. I mean, we don't run the Iso scheme - but so what? By some of the logic in this thread we should identify what scheme we'll be running in 5 years and draft those guys now. Oh yea... That's not how it works is it?

Do fat guys pull better than athletic lineman? Slide? Shuffle? Marcarena?


I think we should draft lineman that can do the Micheal Jackson white glove dance, and running backs that excel at ballroom dancing. We should get Jerry Rice on our coaching staff. Then maybe we should let KGB play his true position... Ballerina.

Ok I'm having too much fun with this.. time to go back into my cage. You guys get back to work. I'm sure there's a mole-hill somewhere that aspires to be a mountain.

[GBkrzygrl]

I am by far not an expert on this subject, but from what I have read and heard about MM, I don't that he is going to stick with the 'strict' (can't think of a better word) ZBS. If I remember correctly, didn't he do a little twicking last year?

There have been a lot of thought provoking opinions on this subject, but don't you think that MM is aware of the danger of becoming too one dimensional as far as running the running game goes? Don't you think that he will do some type of hybrid running game?

[WB PackerFan]

That has been my point as well. Give me players that are atheletic, hard working, high character and coachable any day over all talent, no brains and low character.

I also agree with you that College, Spitz, and Moll last year and Barbre this year are not only nice size, but present very good atheletic ability. Add Clifton, Tauscher , Wells , Barry and you have a line that will be very good in the future.

[JimATX]

I think this is just coincidental what Arrigo posted. The NFL and to a degree NCAA Div-1 are about copy-cats. The WCO has been around since the 60's. Further, as someone else mentioned, every team runs ZBS type run plays as well as Lead Block or Isolation plays. Also, Arrigo only proposes this Common Thread theory while looking at only HALF the team, the Offense.

If you acquire football players and you have a strong coaching staff, any scheme can work. I think Thompson and McCarthy are following this method.

That has been my point as well. Give me players that are atheletic, hard working, high character and coachable any day over all talent, no brains and low character.

I also agree with you that College, Spitz, and Moll last year and Barbre this year are not only nice size, but present very good atheletic ability. Add Clifton, Tauscher , Wells , Barry and you have a line that will be very good in the future.

I don't know if I agree about including Barry in this athletic list.