[Arrigo]

Well, after taking some time off (to re-charge my batteries) I started to think about the players Ted Thompson has drafted in the past 3 years and I see a common thread when it comes to the offensive players that he intends to have a major role (or starting spot)...almost all played in a version of the WCO or in a ZBS.

Let us go back to his drafts for the Packers:

2005

1.) Aaron Rodgers- Cal- Jeff Tedford runs a version of the WCO.

2.) Terrence Murphy- Texas A&M- Another school that ran a version of the WCO.


2006

2.) Daryn Colledge- Boise St.- They do not run the WCO, but they do use the ZBS

2.) Greg Jennings- W. Michigan- They run a version of the WCO.

3.) Jason Spitz- Louisville- His school didn't run the ZBS or WCO.


2007

2.) Brandon Jackson- Nebraska- They run the WCO

3.) James Jones- San Jose St.- They run the WCO

4.) Allen Barbre- Missouri Southern St.- They use a ZBS.

5.) David Clowney- Virginia Tech- They do not run a WCO.

6.) Cory Hall - Boise St.- They don't use the WCO, but he was a LB in college.

7.) Clark Harris- Rutgers- Played in a ZBS scheme.


So this leads me to think that Ted Thompson, Mike McCarthy and the staff would rather have players come in that are already have some idea what the offense is about and be "a head of the curve" so to speak. It work well last year with Jennings and Murphy had all the skills in the world and was starting to get more time when he got injured. That is why, if you put all YOUR PERSONAL FEELINGS AND FAVORITE PLAYERS ASIDE (when it comes to who the Packers "should have drafted") the picks make sense and should not be a major surprise to those who follow the Packers closely.

Ted Thompson's plan is really easy to see. Build through the draft, do not over spend on "fringe" FA's, resign your "core guys" and draft players that fit what you are doing now. Is it a popular method? NO, well not to fans and pundits, but it is the "right way" to go. I cannot be to upset about him not signing certain players, because Thompson is building the Packers for the long haul, not a quick fix. Yes it would be nice to see Brett Favre hold up another Lombardi Trophy, but at what cost? The Packers future?! I would rather see the Packers go on a run like the Steelers of the 70's and win multiple titles for a long, sustained period of time, not another 1 and done like the past few champs (the Buccaneers, Rams, and Steelers).

The bottom line is the Packers under Ted Thompson are being built on a strong Offensive and Defensive line....hard hitting, hard nosed defensive players...a sound game...and a timely passing attack. I could see the Packers improvement as last season progressed and I believe the staff and team will continue to grow together and learn form past transgressions. With only 1 "major" Packers FA to resign, Corey Williams, (which is not to much of a "need" because of the drafting of Justin Harrell) the Packers look to be in good shape in 2008, not to mention a lot of cap space to lock up certain players long term or reward players for their contributions and efforts.

I don't see this as the 70's and 80's all over again...I see it as building your team through the draft and being fiscally responsible. Ted Thompson's plan is not fan friendly, but if the end justifies the means...well Thompson would have proved his doubters wrong and made ALOT of Packers fans happy.

[2Fargone1976]

The real common thread is that players that look like stretches come in and play better than their draft position.

Players do not have to be crafted from the ZBS or WCO mold to come in and be ahead of the curve. It seems that Ted Thompson drafts heady players. They come in ready to learn and sometimes ready to prove the rest of the league wrong about their draft position. Ted Thompson brings in people ready to contribute first year by drafting players with these characteristics:

1) Hard working background : When being a first year player, you have to jump from the college curve to the pro curve. Players have to weight lift harder, run harder, and they have to learn a playbook that is much larger than anything they saw in college. If they work hard, all of these things are acheivable. It is a state of mind.

2) Character : Ted Thompson may not have a problem with signing a player with some character flaws (Woodson), but he will not bring a player in through the draft, his major gateway to this team, that brings poor character to the team. Not only does he want them to be hard working people, he also wants them to be good people.

3) Talent : It would seem that Ted Thompson does not value talent as much as character and hard work by his picks, but a mixture of the first three always seems to come through. Players like Nick Collins, Daryn Colledge, Greg Jennings... they all looked like reaches because teams were looking at talent as the only gauge of draftability. Every player coming out in the draft has talent. They had to have played well in college, or else they wouldn't be drafted.

4) System Play : It never hurts to draft for your system. 80% of Thompson's picks were in similar systems to what the Packers play. It seems like something that pushes players up to the top of their "tier" as Patty would put it.

When you put a player with all of those together, you get a Packer player. Almost every player we draft has these characteristics. Thompson takes chances on UDFAs that do not have these skills, but does not mess around with his draft picks.

Obviously this is just speculation, but I think that it explains a lot of the who's and why's that come up when Ted Thompson drafts.

This needs to be saved and pulled back out again for next years draft. I wonder if we look at the prospects this way if we get a better feel for who could be drafted...

[66_Ray]

Another theme that seems to run trough TT's Packer drafts. He seems to like guys who have overcome major obstacles in their lives. Jones, Rouse, Hawkins - there mat be some more. You can't help rooting for guys like these to succeed.

My personal belief in life, overcoming obstacles. Thinking though difficulties without loosing your moral compass or values builds character.

Than You have Packer People

[Patty]

I believe a GM can get into trouble doing what TT is doing. There is a point where you are faced with a situation like this:

Player A fits your schemes but was only an average player at best. But he will have the jump on other players becasue of his familiarity to the schemes going to be used.

Player B did not come from a college that ran the schemes you do but he is far superior to player A in terms of athleticism and football smarts.

I believe you would be a certifiable idiot to pass on player B for player A just because of a common thread.

And I think this was done in the draft but will wait patiently to see.

This common thread is making it sound like Ted Thompsopn is a genius and I do not think that is the case. I think Thompson is a pretty decent talent scout.

But Joe if you look closely at the last 2 drafts I think you can get an answer to why I have been able to zero in on 9 of the players selected by the Packers before the draft. I look for patterns and habitual tendencies. That is why when I read numerous posts about certain players for Green Bay that it was so easy to pass by them because I knew they did not fit a profile of a Ted Thompson type pf selection.

It just seems to me that if you have a decision to make you do not reach 2 to 3 rounds for a player just because that player came from a school that used a scheme that resembles the ones that you do. I also think it is wise to look at instincts and atleticism before pocket picking a player. And what i got from this post is describing a GM who is pocket picking players. I hope our GM is not guilty of doing that. It will come back to ending a career.

[the monkey soul]

Obviously Patty, that's true. Which is why you see picks like Rouse - a guy who played 'rover' coming in to our system where the safeties are interchangeable.

One thing - share your Packer draft pick profile? I'm sure everyone would be interested in reading it.

And as far as I'm able to tell, from this last draft you were only able to get the Harrell pick right. Maybe I just haven't seen your full predictions, however.

[Patty]

monkey soul I did not do as well this draft as I identified only 3 players and 2 of them were not the exact player

I got Harrell and had David Clowney Wr as a possible 4th rounder and Clark harris TE as a possible 4th rounder. As you know Clowney went in 5th and harris went in 7th.

Every year I usually list about a dozen to 16 or so players the Packers are focused on. Taking into accont that some of the players might go off the board in front of them.

Justin Harrell was not the primary player on my list but was 2nd on the list.

Brandon Jackson I had listed on a few posts as a possible selection but I clearly thought Brian Leonard was the guy.

Round 3 i was totally taken back by James Jones. Nothing from several sources indicated Packers interest in him. Aaron Rouse was also a surprise as I thought they might go for Sabby Piscitelli as a SS but all indications were they wanted a FS and not a SS.

I think what skewed round 3 for me as the Randy Moss trade rumors. When I aakened Saturday Morning I felt the Packers would make a trade down for an extra 3rd so they could acquire Randy Moss.

I knew the Packers were interested in Barbre but i though for sure he would go off the board and the Packers would not get him. I had the Packers looking at Ryan Harris and Doug Free. SO I missed on the barbre pick.

I kind expaected the packers to select 2 RB'sm in the draft but I was surprised they took DeShawn Wynn. I went with Joe Arrigo o this as I a convinved that GB would take D. Wright (Fresno State) in round 5. He went in round 4

Last year I hit it straight on 6 players last year but only got 3 this year and all 3 were not primary guesses but harrell and Clowney were identified by me as selections with Clark Harris a maybe.

To sum this up nowhere on any of my lists did I have James Jones - Aaron ROuse - Korey Hall - Desmond Bishop DeShawn Wynn as players GB were thinking of. I skunked out

I did have Justin Harrell - Brandon Jackson - David Clowney Clark Harris as players GB might be selecting --- And Allen Barbre I did not list becasue I felt he was gong to go much sooner than he did and knew the Packers were not going to select an OL on day 1

Like I said Brian Leonard was stronger on my list than Jackson. I even thought Antonio Pittman might be taken before Brandon jackson but knew they were interested in both.

I also paid attenton to a few of the analysts that LMG has on draft chats. They kept mentioning that a PK might be taken by Green Bay - I just did not expect mason Crosby to last past the 5th round.

[the monkey soul]

Awesome. Great. Thanks for sharing.

So what is on this Packer draft profile of your's?

[GregJenningsRules]

Thanks for the post, Patty. Before going any further, let me say I'm a big Patty fan. I always look forward to your posts, and have great respect for your insights. But I am curious about what seems to be a contradiction between your two posts on this thread.

In your first post, you said:

It just seems to me that if you have a decision to make you do not reach 2 to 3 rounds for a player just because that player came from a school that used a scheme that resembles the ones that you do.

The implication I sense from this post was that Thompson drafted too many people too early, based on schemes, which of course in the theme of this thread. But in your second post, you made these comments:

I got Harrell and had David Clowney Wr as a possible 4th rounder and Clark harris TE as a possible 4th rounder. As you know Clowney went in 5th and harris went in 7th.

I knew the Packers were interested in Barbre but i though for sure he would go off the board and the Packers would not get him....I felt he was gong to go much sooner than he did and knew the Packers were not going to select an OL on day 1

I also paid attenton to a few of the analysts that LMG has on draft chats. They kept mentioning that a PK might be taken by Green Bay - I just did not expect mason Crosby to last past the 5th round.

So we got Clowney, Harris, Rouse (although you didn't say it, many others have said he could have gone much earlier), Barbre, and Crosby 1 to 3 rounds after they could have/should have gone. That's a player in each of rounds 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7 that look to be great bargains for us. I realize that people feel that Jackson and Jones could have probably been taken later (and there's no way we'll ever really know when they might have gone if we hadn't picked them.) But we ended up getting 5 "good" bargains against 2 "bad" bargains (personally, I think Corey Hall may prove to be a bargain, too). I guess my point is that the positives may outweigh the negatives. And obviously the Packers scouting reports saw somethin in Jones and Jackson. Maybe it was the system they played; maybe it was something they saw in them as people. I don't know. Again, time will tell. I suppose we'll all watch the comparison between Brian Leonard and Brandon Jackson for the next couple of years, and we'll all feel woeful that we just barely missed out on Jarret and Rice. Personally, I'm hoping both Jackson and Jones prove they were worth it. They both obviously have some spark. Let's hope it starts a fire.

[LosAngelis]

Not making me feel better, Arrigo.

Drafting players to fit a scheme is a very slippery slope to be treading on.

At this point, the only team that has shown any sustained success with the ZBS is Denver. Atlanta is trying to get rid of the scheme, and has now found themselves saddled with one-dimensional personnel that is going to take time to rebuild.

The more we keep drafting players based on how they fit a certain scheme, which so far has proven zilch, the bigger a hole we dig for ourselves if it ends up not working (as the Falcons have found out).

In essence, Ted Thompson is living and dying by the ZBS.

monkey soul: If you wish to disagree with Patty, that is your perogative. But there is a difference between stating your opinion when it is appropriate for the thread (and being done with it), and just ragging on her any time she posts. Let it go.