[stick56]

I posted this bit of thougt in response to a thread at another Packer forum:

MM is really on the hot seat again to do more with less.

He saved the team from disaster with a late run in 2006.

He overachievd in 2007.

Came back to earth in 2008.

If the few veteran holdovers from the Sherman era do no recover sufficiently from their injury concerns(Jenkins, Harris, Barnett, Wells, Clifton) and/or continue producing(Driver,Kampman) at a high level this team is in big trouble.

Also the only two real high-profile Free agent signings Woodson and Pickett cant hit the proverbial wall this season either.

In fact if Pickett comes to camp out-of-shape yet again it will put the Packer transistion to the 3-4 in a big hole.

The pre-TT players still make or break this team as they have done for the last four seasons and this 5th TT season will be no exception.

Its why he keeps so many around.

Wolfs 5th year Super bowl winning team only had TWO holdovers a Kicker and a Safety.

TT is no Wolf by any stretch of the imagination.

MM is not yet Holmgren but this season is likely to make or break him.

Ive been on record for over two months that 12-4 is achievable.

If MM can "coach up" the disgraceeful lack of talent and depth put at his disposal by TT.

However the consenus is a mediocre 9-7 record at best even given a schedule that is not likley to ever be any easier nor fortuitous.

Mainly because TT is viewed as not having acquired sufficient talent for most people to consider this team as competitive for a playoff position.

This team has a lot to prove across the board lets hope its up to the task.

Five seasons and its time to put up or move on.

[Staggers]

I think this is a case of believing the glass is half full or half empty. I believe that the Packers have an excellent roster and coaching staff. The defense and special teams will be better than last year and the offense will be as good.

To his credit, TT kept players who he inherited that he believes are good football players who fit within the salary scheme. I think our depth is better which would lesson the blow of any lingering injuries of our veterans. There is no doubt it would be great if Jenkins and Barnett played a lot of downs.

[grabthar]

The pre-TT players still make or break this team as they have done for the last four seasons and this 5th TT season will be no exception.

Come on, Stick. We all know you hate Ted, and you have even said so yourself. Saying that Rodgers, Jennings, Grant, 4/5 of the O-Line, as well as 7 out of the 11 defensive starters are not the make or break players and that just those 7 from Sherman are is very one-sided.

Also, the way you list the accomplishments.

He saved the team from disaster with a late run in 2006.

He overachievd in 2007.

Came back to earth in 2008.

Why can't it be said that after a rough first start, he pulled the team together in 2006, showed their true potential in 2007, and underachieved in 2008. There is just as much validity to looking at it that way as there is the way you look at it.

[The GM]

I posted this bit of thougt in response to a thread at another Packer forum:

MM is really on the hot seat again to do more with less.

As are many coaches in the NFL

He overachievd in 2007.

Came back to earth in 2008.

Or figured out the coordinators and position coaches he'd been relying on werent very good



If the few veteran holdovers from the Sherman era do no recover sufficiently from their injury concerns(Jenkins, Harris, Barnett, Wells, Clifton) and/or continue producing(Driver,Kampman) at a high level this team is in big trouble.

As with most teams, you need help from the veterans


Also the only two real high-profile Free agent signings Woodson and Pickett cant hit the proverbial wall this season either.

Flashback to reality, Free Agents arent lining up to come to Green Bay, which mediocre FA would you like to pay double for?, It all impacts the organization and lockerroom when average players are making more than some better players. I got no problem with TT's approach to FA.


In fact if Pickett comes to camp out-of-shape yet again it will put the Packer transistion to the 3-4 in a big hole.

The 3/4 is McCarthy's call, not Thompson's.



The pre-TT players still make or break this team as they have done for the last four seasons and this 5th TT season will be no exception.

Its why he keeps so many around.

They are veterans, he keeps them around based on their contributions to the team. The "I drafted him so I can cut him and keep shermans player" is about as baseless as it gets.


Wolfs 5th year Super bowl winning team only had TWO holdovers a Kicker and a Safety.

TT is no Wolf by any stretch of the imagination.

MM is not yet Holmgren but this season is likely to make or break him.

Mike Holmgren was the key to that success. Without Holmgren Wolf is just another GM. He didnt do jack as a GM anywhere until Holmgren came to Green Bay, getting canned in numerous places. Holmgren has been successful everywhere he's gone. So comparing TT and Wolf who had Holmgren is apples and oranges.


Ive been on record for over two months that 12-4 is achievable.

If MM can "coach up" the disgraceeful lack of talent and depth put at his disposal by TT.

Lets put some logic into this thinking. If "12-4 is achieveable" in your opinion, Thompson has done his job, and the responsibility is on McCarthy to achieve it. You cant say in Preseason the team has the potential to reach 12-4, and then blame Thompson if it doesnt. He's provided in your "on the record" opinion, the talent to go 12-4. Based on your own statement, the talent is there.


However the consenus is a mediocre 9-7 record at best even given a schedule that is not likley to ever be any easier nor fortuitous.

Mainly because TT is viewed as not having acquired sufficient talent for most people to consider this team as competitive for a playoff position.

but good enough to achive 12-4?

Five seasons and its time to put up or move on.

17 months ago Thompson was selected by his peers as the Executive of the Year as being the best in the business. He didnt get stupid overnight.

[Patty]

I do not believe Ted Thompson deserved the award as Executive of the Year

With that firey dart thrown I am also sure of myself in saying that I have liked Thompsons drafts. It is in other duties of being a GM that I believe he lacks the ability.

This Packer team has a blend of some good players - some aging stars and few if any Super Stars. THE CORE group of players that define a team is missing

Aaron Rodgers and Greg Jennings are good players capable of turning in a good season but I am still reserved sonewhat to describe tham as a core player or a super star ALL Pro.

Does Clay Matthews have that special gear to be a dynamic player for the Packers. Don't know yet. I really hoped A J Hawk was going to be special. But he instead has become just a good player. Barnett is a good player. I am still not as happy as most with Ryan Grant as our primary RB. He is not the RB you put your marbles on to make the consistent run. Rodgers needs a TE that can read our QB like a book. And we have to finalize our OL - time of development should have happened and yet we are going in with a lot of hope on a couple of rookies and a couple of 2nd year players.

There are a lot of questions for this team and there is also the injury factor. Players we need to step forward carry injury concerns.

Despite the soft schedule on paper if this team claws and scratches out 10 wins I believe will represent a pretty darn good effort from the new coaches and coordinators and players.

Should this be Ted Thompson make it or leave year? Yes I believe it should be but it will not be so. Unless everything unravels and we go 2-14 or worse. I believe Thompson is safe for another year or two but McCarthy may not be given the same confidence.

Ted Thompson has kept the talent level in terms of mediocre to above average but has been slow to learn from mistakes. Still makes silly decisions that a 1st year GM makes. We played the game of hoping for that break through season and wait to see how the latest group of players turn out for nearly 2 and 1/2 decades (70's & 80's). I see the same kind of pattern or rut shaping up with this organization with Ted Thompson at the top.

In the past Ted Thompson has preferred to select 3 mediocre players with promise (that may or may not pan out) instead of making a bold effort to go for that special player. That special player that forms a part of the core group of players that takes a team to the next or highest level. This year he made that decision. He decided to take the gamble on a star potential in B J Raji and decided to go for the player with very high upside in Clay Matthews.

I give a tip of the hat to him but wish he had done this sooner instead of living in the realm of mediocrity which has proven to be the safe way to go. Say what you want about MIKE SHERMAN. LIKE HIM OR HATE HIM, HE DID NOT PLAY IT SAFE. His drafts and free agent signings were aggressive and he took gambles. Many on paper looked good but injuries and lack of heart proved otherwise. Thompson on the other hand has been blaise compared to Sherman in boldness.

For me blaise was what the 70's and 80's were all about. I commend Thompson for being a little more bold and aggressive this year.

[GregJennings]

If Thompson brings a Lombardi Trophy to Green Bay, hopefully those who have said negative things about him as a general manager will have enough character to admit they were completely wrong.

If he does not bring this team SB success, eventually he'll be fired.


I see a lot of great things in Ted Thompson. I hope for the best, not just as a Packer fan, but as a Ted fan. He's shown to be a great man through a lot of trying situations and I can't help but root for a guy who has taken so much hate and vitriol from so many.

[PatS4]

I do not believe Ted Thompson deserved the award as Executive of the Year

A shame then, that you were not allowed to address the voters with your concerns.

With that firey dart thrown I am also sure of myself in saying that I have liked Thompsons drafts. It is in other duties of being a GM that I believe he lacks the ability.

This Packer team has a blend of some good players - some aging stars and few if any Super Stars. THE CORE group of players that define a team is missing

Aaron Rodgers and Greg Jennings are good players capable of turning in a good season but I am still reserved sonewhat to describe tham as a core player or a super star ALL Pro.

So Woodson, Harris, Collins, & Kampmen count for nothing even though they have all been all-pro one time or another. I believe they ARE core players.


Does Clay Matthews have that special gear to be a dynamic player for the Packers. Don't know yet. I really hoped A J Hawk was going to be special. But he instead has become just a good player. Barnett is a good player. I am still not as happy as most with Ryan Grant as our primary RB. He is not the RB you put your marbles on to make the consistent run. Rodgers needs a TE that can read our QB like a book. And we have to finalize our OL - time of development should have happened and yet we are going in with a lot of hope on a couple of rookies and a couple of 2nd year players.

There are a lot of questions for this team and there is also the injury factor. Players we need to step forward carry injury concerns.

I agree with your concerns, I believe most teams have these same (or different concerns each year).

Despite the soft schedule on paper if this team claws and scratches out 10 wins I believe will represent a pretty darn good effort from the new coaches and coordinators and players.

Should this be Ted Thompson make it or leave year? Yes I believe it should be but it will not be so. Unless everything unravels and we go 2-14 or worse. I believe Thompson is safe for another year or two but McCarthy may not be given the same confidence.

Ted Thompson has kept the talent level in terms of mediocre to above average but has been slow to learn from mistakes. Still makes silly decisions that a 1st year GM makes. We played the game of hoping for that break through season and wait to see how the latest group of players turn out for nearly 2 and 1/2 decades (70's & 80's). I see the same kind of pattern or rut shaping up with this organization with Ted Thompson at the top.

I don't get which mistakes he is making over and over. He seems to have "changed his stripes" quite a bit over the last year or so(trading up,etc.), although I doubt he will ever change his philosophy on Free Agency.

In the past Ted Thompson has preferred to select 3 mediocre players with promise (that may or may not pan out) instead of making a bold effort to go for that special player. That special player that forms a part of the core group of players that takes a team to the next or highest level. This year he made that decision. He decided to take the gamble on a star potential in B J Raji and decided to go for the player with very high upside in Clay Matthews.

I give a tip of the hat to him but wish he had done this sooner instead of living in the realm of mediocrity which has proven to be the safe way to go. Say what you want about MIKE SHERMAN. LIKE HIM OR HATE HIM, HE DID NOT PLAY IT SAFE. His drafts and free agent signings were aggressive and he took gambles. Many on paper looked good but injuries and lack of heart proved otherwise. Thompson on the other hand has been blaise compared to Sherman in boldness.

Many on paper looked stupid, too.(BJ Sander)
His aggressiveness and general lack of success, depleted the overall talent level on the Packers and even though his teams won a weak division several times, never did well in the playoffs. Sherman had a deep talented team when he took over and it became a team on the decline.
TT has built the depth back up some and gotten us to the NFCCG once(in only his 3rd year).
I feel TT is now is poised to take more shots at those "superstar" types we need to put us at the top of the NFL heirarchy like he did this year with Raji and Matthews.

For me blaise was what the 70's and 80's were all about. I commend Thompson for being a little more bold and aggressive this year.

I agree with your dislike of the 70's and 80's. I just don't see us heading in that direction.
I enjoy your article and posts, I just wish your dislike for Thompson wasn't so evident in them.

I guess deep down we all just want success for the Pack, there are just so many different paths we all feel they should take to achieve that success.

Go Pack!!

[JimATX]

This Packer team has a blend of some good players - some aging stars and few if any Super Stars. THE CORE group of players that define a team is missing

Aaron Rodgers and Greg Jennings are good players capable of turning in a good season but I am still reserved sonewhat to describe tham as a core player or a super star ALL Pro.

Does Clay Matthews have that special gear to be a dynamic player for the Packers. Don't know yet. I really hoped A J Hawk was going to be special. But he instead has become just a good player. Barnett is a good player. I am still not as happy as most with Ryan Grant as our primary RB. He is not the RB you put your marbles on to make the consistent run. Rodgers needs a TE that can read our QB like a book. And we have to finalize our OL - time of development should have happened and yet we are going in with a lot of hope on a couple of rookies and a couple of 2nd year players.

There are a lot of questions for this team and there is also the injury factor. Players we need to step forward carry injury concerns.

{snip}

I give a tip of the hat to him but wish he had done this sooner instead of living in the realm of mediocrity which has proven to be the safe way to go. Say what you want about MIKE SHERMAN. LIKE HIM OR HATE HIM, HE DID NOT PLAY IT SAFE. His drafts and free agent signings were aggressive and he took gambles. Many on paper looked good but injuries and lack of heart proved otherwise. Thompson on the other hand has been blaise compared to Sherman in boldness.

Wow... what a terrible evaluation of the current Packers talent and an unbelievable assessment that Sherman was a good GM because he didn't play it safe!

Rodgers and Jennings: Rodgers is a top 5 QB in the NFL and Jennings a top 10 WR. AR can make all the throws and his pocket awareness progressed during the season last year. Also his decision making is better than his experience would suggest. Jennings makes the tough catches and runs fantastic routes. While he does not time with great speed he has that ability (like Driver) to get separation and keep it when running 1-on-1.

Matthews - Why question if he has that special gear when he hasn't put on NFL pads yet?

You do know that Hawk and Barnett were injured most of last season, right?

As for Grant... the hold-out slowed his performance early in the year and then the hamstring injury kept him from breaking tackles like he did in 2007.

What makes you think that Lee or Finley can't get on the same page with Rodgers? 1 year and they should be whoa nelly Jackson?

What team does not have concerns about injuries? You state, "Players we need to step forward carry injury concerns." Who are you referring to?

Now the Sherman comment. The guy was an average coach who wasted Super Bowl talent and a horrible GM who couldn't pour piss out of his boot if the instructions were written on the heel. He was so bold in his decisions that he punted on 4th and 1 on the opponents 42 when the team had ripped the other D for over 200 yards to that point in the game.

I respectfully disagree with your opinions here.

[The GM]

I do not believe Ted Thompson deserved the award as Executive of the Year

Where do you people come from?

Thompson got double the votes of any other executive in the NFL. ***Voted on by 48 NFL Executives***

He didn't deserve it?????????????????????????????

His peers overwhelmingly thought he did.

[The GM]

Now the Sherman comment. The guy was an average coach who wasted Super Bowl talent and a horrible GM who couldn't pour piss out of his boot if the instructions were written on the heel. He was so bold in his decisions that he punted on 4th and 1 on the opponents 42 when the team had ripped the other D for over 200 yards to that point in the game.

Agree Jim, Sherman was tremendously loyal to the Packers. I believed he loved coaching the Packers as much as anybody has. He was handed the keys to a cadillac, and ran it into the ground. He couldnt/wouldnt control Favre, made some of the worst GM decisions you could make. You could throw darts at a board and come up with better drafts. Sherman is a good guy, but he'll never be a GM again.